cofty

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Posts by cofty

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  44

  Please explain the Watchtower's "Ransom" for me

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  according to the watchtower:.

  who received the ransom payment?.

  why did the ransomer need to be paid?.

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  cofty

  If the ransom would be for Adam, he would be a candidate for the resurrection, which wt denies - Waton

  Russell taught that Adam was redeemed and would be raised.
  
  
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  44

  Please explain the Watchtower's "Ransom" for me

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  according to the watchtower:.

  who received the ransom payment?.

  why did the ransomer need to be paid?.

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  cofty

  Don't you think it is worth trying to properly understand the things we rightly condemn?

  The WT doctrine of the Ransom bears absolutely no resemblance to the christian gospel. Ask any christian about why Jesus had to die and they will talk about how Jesus suffered the punishment for their sins. This is how the early church explained Jesus' death. Vicarious punishment was also an important part of Russell's doctrine. It was the very thing he fell out with Barbour about.
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  44

  Please explain the Watchtower's "Ransom" for me

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  according to the watchtower:.

  who received the ransom payment?.

  why did the ransomer need to be paid?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Russell originally taught that Jesus died only for Adam - one perfect life for one perfect life.

  The rest of mankind were redeemed by proxy as they were as yet unborn in "Adam's loins".

  "One redeemer was quite sufficient in the plan which God adopted, because only one had sinned, and only one had been condemned. Others shared his condemnation…One unforfeited life could redeem one forfeited life and no more." - Divine Plan of the Ages p.132 (1886)
  

  Rutherford initially went along with this doctrine but, speaking like a lawyer, he presented it like a financial transaction.

  In Rutherford’s book, “The Harp of God”, published in 1921, he used an illustration concerning three men, John, Charles, and Mr. Smith. John is in prison unable to pay a $100 fine. His brother Charles has no money but does have time and energy. It is argued that, just as Charles’ strength could not help John directly, neither could Jesus’ life redeem Adam. So Charles works for Mr. Smith to turn his energy into cash which he uses to free John. Similarly: Jesus must reduce his perfect humanity to a purchasing value, which we may call merit, and which merit or purchasing value would be sufficient for the payment of Adam’s debt and release Adam and his offspring from that judgement. In order to provide this price it was necessary for Jesus to die. – p.142

  In 1939 however Rutherford made a significant change to this unique doctrine.

  "The judgement entered against Adam was just, it must stand forever....

  This text does not say or mean that Adam was or is ransomed, but does mean that the human perfection once possessed by the perfect man Adam (and which human perfection carried with it the right to life, which life and right thereto were forfeited by the wilful disobedience of Adam) is purchased or bought back or ransomed for Adam’s offspring, who were prevented from receiving that life and right thereto by reason of Adam’s sin – Salvation p.176.

  In my opinion this strange interpretation of the meaning of Jesus' death - the doctrine of soteriology - is the single most important factor that distinguishes JWs from christianity.
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  6

  BBC radio 4 Now

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  major story on main 6pm program now on jw non-reporting of child abuse.

  expert reckons there are thousands of unreported cases still to be revealed.

  mp planning to raise it in parliament!

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  cofty

  Major story on main 6pm program now on JW non-reporting of child abuse. Expert reckons there are thousands of unreported cases still to be revealed.

  MP planning to raise it in Parliament!
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  20

  BBC: Victims 'told not to report' Jehovah's Witness child abuse

  by Lostandfound in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  today on bbc news site http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42025255 sorry about typo in heading big story on bbc news in uk.

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  cofty

  Top link in BBC News portal...

  
  
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  142

  Panpsychism - a philosophy with a future

  by slimboyfat in

  1. social
  2. current

  at one time scientists believed that living things and non-living things were made of different material, accounting for the unique properties of living things.

  this idea is called vitalism and is no longer popular.

  what does remain popular (in fact is still the dominant view) is a similar idea that things that experience the world (humans, frogs, mice) are different from things that don't experience the world (potatoes, rocks, snowflakes).

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  cofty

  The basic point is that awareness is a property of all matter

  That is nothing but an evidence-free bald assertion.

  It is not even wrong.
  
  
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  142

  Panpsychism - a philosophy with a future

  by slimboyfat in

  1. social
  2. current

  at one time scientists believed that living things and non-living things were made of different material, accounting for the unique properties of living things.

  this idea is called vitalism and is no longer popular.

  what does remain popular (in fact is still the dominant view) is a similar idea that things that experience the world (humans, frogs, mice) are different from things that don't experience the world (potatoes, rocks, snowflakes).

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  cofty

  jp1692 that statement is about the consciousness of non-human animals. That is not very controversial but it has nothing to do with the insane proposal that rocks have consciousness which is what SBF is proposing.
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  142

  Panpsychism - a philosophy with a future

  by slimboyfat in

  1. social
  2. current

  at one time scientists believed that living things and non-living things were made of different material, accounting for the unique properties of living things.

  this idea is called vitalism and is no longer popular.

  what does remain popular (in fact is still the dominant view) is a similar idea that things that experience the world (humans, frogs, mice) are different from things that don't experience the world (potatoes, rocks, snowflakes).

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  cofty

  the idea is getting more popular - because it makes sense

  How can the idea that a rock is conscious make any sense at all?
  
  
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  24

  Science corner

  by The Real Edward Gentry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on other boards and new sites they are talking about contact with aliens in the next 20 years.

  i think that would be reckless and dangerous.

  how could you tell if it was a genuine space alien and not a demon?

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  cofty

  a co-worker asked me to attend a Full Gospel Businessman's Luncheon

  What do you mean by "Full" (with an upper-case "F) gospel Edward? How does it differ from what most christians would understand by the gospel?
  
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  142

  Panpsychism - a philosophy with a future

  by slimboyfat in

  1. social
  2. current

  at one time scientists believed that living things and non-living things were made of different material, accounting for the unique properties of living things.

  this idea is called vitalism and is no longer popular.

  what does remain popular (in fact is still the dominant view) is a similar idea that things that experience the world (humans, frogs, mice) are different from things that don't experience the world (potatoes, rocks, snowflakes).

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  cofty

  However, I will apply the idea only to live matter. - never a jw

  Which is to totally miss the point.

  The clue is in the "pan" of pansychism. In other words these, Discovery Institute funded, geniuses are proposing that rocks are conscious.