Really excellent conversation between two intelligent and intellectually honest people.
I look forward to reading Douglas Murray's new book The Madness of Crowds.
One of the key points that came out of the the conversation was the critique of the belief in the 'perfectibility' of humans and of society. This is the foundational error that lay behind communism and every other crazy utopian ideology including the Watchtower. It is a main theme of Pinker's The Blank Slate. If you haven't read it yet do yourself a favour.