Posts by cofty

10

THE IRISH TIMES: Judge orders blood can be administered to Jehovah’s Witness girl

by AndersonsInfo in

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/judge-orders-blood-can-be-administered-to-jehovah-s-witness-girl-1.4157892.

a teenage girl who urgently requires surgery can, if necessary, be administered blood or blood products against the wishes of herself and her parents, all members of the jehovah’s witness faith, the president of the high court has ordered.. mr justice peter kelly said he was satisfied, notwithstanding the views of the girl and her parents, the orders are necessary for preserving the girl’s life and not to permit them would be “hazardous”.. the orders take immediate effect, he directed.. david leahy bl, for the hse, sought the orders in an ex parte application, one side only represented, on friday afternoon.. a solicitor for the hse told the court he had informed the girl and her parents of the court application and the parents had indicated they were not attending court to oppose it.. the solicitor said the parents were not objecting to surgery but, should a situation arise where the medical team wanted to administer blood or blood products, they could not agree to that and wanted the team to explore all other alternatives.. they had also said they wanted the best for their daughter and would not stand in the way of a court order.. mr justice kelly said court applications for leave to administer blood or blood products against the wishes of members of the jehovah’s witness faith, while not a regular occurrence, are not unusual.. he referred to a number of decisions permitting that to be done in “exceptional” circumstances.. on the medical evidence, including that antibiotic therapy had not reduced the infection and the serous risk of sepsis if surgery is not carried out, he was satisfied she needed the surgery.. read more: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/judge-orders-blood-can-be-administered-to-jehovah-s-witness-girl-1.4157892.

cofty

I don’t know what the age cut off should be, but 18 or even 16 seems a bit old. I would have wanted my wishes respected younger than that ... Maybe around about 13 or so? - SBF

Why should a court care about a teenager's wish to become a martyr? The task of the state is to protect a child from themselves and others

Teenagers brought up in the cult are brainwashed. Their access to contrary information is completely controlled therefore they are incapable of making an informed choice. At 13 I could have given a convincing case that I understood why I didn't want blood and made it sound like my own choice. It would have been a total sham.

8

A new evolutionary link

by Half banana in

that heroic labeller of living things, the 18th century swede carl linnaeus, painstakingly grouped into discrete categories everything which grew breathed or moved.

his meticulous ranking of “kinds” made the scientific examination of the living world a whole lot easier.

his legacy is greatly valued and his system is still universally used today.. however as time has unfurled, a problem arose in the observation that nature does not always agree with the human desire for rigid boundaries -- of what makes a family, genus or species.

cofty

Thank you HB. Great stuff.

I love to hear about developments in early life research.

39

Only One Destiny for All Christians

by cofty in

the following is an extract from an article i wrote when i left the watchtower 25 years ago.

it may be helpful in reasoning with a jw about the anointed/great crowd distinction.. --------------------------------.

to divide people into those with a heavenly hope and those with an earthly one is not a biblical concept.

cofty

Major religions have divided over such minutiae.

10

THE IRISH TIMES: Judge orders blood can be administered to Jehovah’s Witness girl

by AndersonsInfo in

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/judge-orders-blood-can-be-administered-to-jehovah-s-witness-girl-1.4157892.

a teenage girl who urgently requires surgery can, if necessary, be administered blood or blood products against the wishes of herself and her parents, all members of the jehovah’s witness faith, the president of the high court has ordered.. mr justice peter kelly said he was satisfied, notwithstanding the views of the girl and her parents, the orders are necessary for preserving the girl’s life and not to permit them would be “hazardous”.. the orders take immediate effect, he directed.. david leahy bl, for the hse, sought the orders in an ex parte application, one side only represented, on friday afternoon.. a solicitor for the hse told the court he had informed the girl and her parents of the court application and the parents had indicated they were not attending court to oppose it.. the solicitor said the parents were not objecting to surgery but, should a situation arise where the medical team wanted to administer blood or blood products, they could not agree to that and wanted the team to explore all other alternatives.. they had also said they wanted the best for their daughter and would not stand in the way of a court order.. mr justice kelly said court applications for leave to administer blood or blood products against the wishes of members of the jehovah’s witness faith, while not a regular occurrence, are not unusual.. he referred to a number of decisions permitting that to be done in “exceptional” circumstances.. on the medical evidence, including that antibiotic therapy had not reduced the infection and the serous risk of sepsis if surgery is not carried out, he was satisfied she needed the surgery.. read more: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/judge-orders-blood-can-be-administered-to-jehovah-s-witness-girl-1.4157892.

cofty

Thankfully this is the norm in many countries now. In emergencies UK doctors can obtain a ward of court order by telephone.

There is a kind of dance that everybody has to perform. The elders pretend they must resist blood. The parents tell the doctors they can't possibly give consent to blood. The doctors politely suggest it would be good to let the court take responsibility. The parents acquiesce. The court notes its respect for the sincere beliefs of all concerned and give temporary custody of the child to a ward of court who gives consent. The parents assure the court and the doctors of their respect for the decision of the court.

Outcomes - The child's life is saved. The parents are massively - and quietly relieved. The elders are even more quietly relieved. Job done.

Nobody actually believes that blood is more sacred than life.

8

A new evolutionary link

by Half banana in

that heroic labeller of living things, the 18th century swede carl linnaeus, painstakingly grouped into discrete categories everything which grew breathed or moved.

his meticulous ranking of “kinds” made the scientific examination of the living world a whole lot easier.

his legacy is greatly valued and his system is still universally used today.. however as time has unfurled, a problem arose in the observation that nature does not always agree with the human desire for rigid boundaries -- of what makes a family, genus or species.

cofty

Half Banana - Do oyu have a link to the discovery by the Japanese scientists that you refer to please?

Endosymbiosis is a classic example of how science works at its best. It was rejected for many years until Lynne Margulies (wife of Carl Sagan I think) and her colleagues mustered sufficient evidence.

16

Article: Jehovah's Witnesses leaders ordered to pay rape victim £62,000 damages

by AndersonsInfo in

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/jehovahs-witnesses-leaders-ordered-pay-17661919.

jehovah's witnesses leaders ordered to pay rape victim £62,000 damages.

the woman was raped by a fellow jehovah's witness after going door-to-door evangelising near cardiff, glamorgan, 30 years ago, mr justice chamberlain heard.

cofty

Thanks for posting this Barbara.

If only Judicial Committees had a directive like doctors - first do no harm.

5

Franklin Graham event axed

by Fadeaway1962 in

bbc news: franklin graham's glasgow event axed after council pressure .

i saw this on the bbc and thought you should see it:franklin graham's glasgow event axed after council pressure - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-51302490 .

hi been looking on here for a while now , been a great help in finding ttatt so thanks for that .seen this wonder if assembly venues aware off jws view and stand on these issues and others like child abuse cover up .

cofty

Very good point. It would be interesting to test that!

8

Elders as Parasites!--You Can't Blame EXJW's!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

no, you can not blame exjw's for that statement, and the 4 members of this family didn't say it either.. it was your governing body, the president of your watchtower society that said that.as well as upon the egyptians; which means that inorder for a professed christian to be pleasing and acceptableto the lord such must be separate from theworld and clean; hence the cleansing of god’s sanctuaryis involved and includes the removing of the“elective elders” as parasites, and which must takeplace before god’s organization is entirely clean.".

see last paragraph.https://docdro.id/7ld8qyfpetra!.

https://docdro.id/ci9fsqr.

cofty

I think it's difficult from our perspective to grasp just how divisive Rutherford was. The Bible Students who left the organisation because of the radical changes he enforced were branded as 'The Evil slave Class'.

I remember old JWs back in the 70s reminiscing about how traumatic it all was. Occasionally I would meet elderly people when going door-to-door who had left the religion in that period. Of course some groups who follow Russell still exist.

8

Elders as Parasites!--You Can't Blame EXJW's!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

no, you can not blame exjw's for that statement, and the 4 members of this family didn't say it either.. it was your governing body, the president of your watchtower society that said that.as well as upon the egyptians; which means that inorder for a professed christian to be pleasing and acceptableto the lord such must be separate from theworld and clean; hence the cleansing of god’s sanctuaryis involved and includes the removing of the“elective elders” as parasites, and which must takeplace before god’s organization is entirely clean.".

see last paragraph.https://docdro.id/7ld8qyfpetra!.

https://docdro.id/ci9fsqr.

cofty

Yes absolutely.

In fact I think Russell began to move in that direction towards the end of his life.

Rutherford was a power-hungry and abusive tyrant. Having read many of his books I think we can also say he was not very intelligent.

8

Elders as Parasites!--You Can't Blame EXJW's!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

no, you can not blame exjw's for that statement, and the 4 members of this family didn't say it either.. it was your governing body, the president of your watchtower society that said that.as well as upon the egyptians; which means that inorder for a professed christian to be pleasing and acceptableto the lord such must be separate from theworld and clean; hence the cleansing of god’s sanctuaryis involved and includes the removing of the“elective elders” as parasites, and which must takeplace before god’s organization is entirely clean.".

see last paragraph.https://docdro.id/7ld8qyfpetra!.

https://docdro.id/ci9fsqr.

cofty

'Elective Elders' were a favourite topic of Judge Rutherford. It was not elders he objected to, it was the right of local congregations (or companies) to appoint their own elders by voting them into office.

Rutherford wanted full control of congregations in a way that contrasted with Russell's more laissez faire style of leadership.

Rutherford even found antitypes in obscure Old Testament prophecies that apparently foreshadowed the 'power-hungry men' that were the target of his ire. He wrote a whole book on it in which he fulminated page after page. It was reading those sort of books that convinced me the organisation was no different from any other dysfunctional corporation - in fact it was worse than most.