editor's note: found this on reddit...thought the meat of the post would be a good post for discussion here as well.. consider the three choices god forced upon david for taking a census.
these three choices were forced on king david, not for murdering people, not for raping women, not for lying, stealing, or any crime we can think of in our modern world that is repugnant, but simply for taking a census or in other words, counting people.. for counting people, jehovah forced a decision on david that involved the lives of thousands upon thousands of innocent people.. the choices all dealt with the “way” jehovah would kill thousands of unsuspecting loyal worshipers.. 1 chronicles 21.
“these are the choices the lord has given you.
I did answer it Joan..
Almost every creature that has ever lived perished of starvation, predation, infection, exposure, disease or parasites. Five times - before humans even existed - almost every creature on earth was wiped out in mass extinction events. For 200,000 years humans just like us have lived lives that were nasty, brutish and short.
Take it up on this other thread where it is on topic.
editor's note: found this on reddit...thought the meat of the post would be a good post for discussion here as well.. consider the three choices god forced upon david for taking a census.
these three choices were forced on king david, not for murdering people, not for raping women, not for lying, stealing, or any crime we can think of in our modern world that is repugnant, but simply for taking a census or in other words, counting people.. for counting people, jehovah forced a decision on david that involved the lives of thousands upon thousands of innocent people.. the choices all dealt with the “way” jehovah would kill thousands of unsuspecting loyal worshipers.. 1 chronicles 21.
“these are the choices the lord has given you.
Pre-exile account
Again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah. - 2 Sam. 24
Post-exile version
Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel. - 1 Chron. 21
editor's note: found this on reddit...thought the meat of the post would be a good post for discussion here as well.. consider the three choices god forced upon david for taking a census.
these three choices were forced on king david, not for murdering people, not for raping women, not for lying, stealing, or any crime we can think of in our modern world that is repugnant, but simply for taking a census or in other words, counting people.. for counting people, jehovah forced a decision on david that involved the lives of thousands upon thousands of innocent people.. the choices all dealt with the “way” jehovah would kill thousands of unsuspecting loyal worshipers.. 1 chronicles 21.
“these are the choices the lord has given you.
Gibberish. Am I going to have to spoon-feed you?
Back to the OP topic. The OT is unapologetic about the fact that god behaves capriciously.
It is not until after the exile that the Hebrews adopted Satan from the Zoroastrian religion to serve the role of god's evil nemesis.
editor's note: found this on reddit...thought the meat of the post would be a good post for discussion here as well.. consider the three choices god forced upon david for taking a census.
these three choices were forced on king david, not for murdering people, not for raping women, not for lying, stealing, or any crime we can think of in our modern world that is repugnant, but simply for taking a census or in other words, counting people.. for counting people, jehovah forced a decision on david that involved the lives of thousands upon thousands of innocent people.. the choices all dealt with the “way” jehovah would kill thousands of unsuspecting loyal worshipers.. 1 chronicles 21.
“these are the choices the lord has given you.
I know atheists define evolution as " gratuitous pain, suffering and waste." - Joan
Firstly evolution is not about atheism. Millions of intelligent christians accept the fact of evolution. It is only Muslims and a small percentage if fundy xtians who deny the facts.
Secondly evolution is not immoral it is amoral. There is no moral dimension to reality. It doesn't care.
On the other hand you have the impossible challenge of explaining why the world that you claim was designed and controlled by an omnipotent god is perfectly designed to MAXIMISE suffering and pain. This is a dilemma for theists not for rationalists.
editor's note: found this on reddit...thought the meat of the post would be a good post for discussion here as well.. consider the three choices god forced upon david for taking a census.
these three choices were forced on king david, not for murdering people, not for raping women, not for lying, stealing, or any crime we can think of in our modern world that is repugnant, but simply for taking a census or in other words, counting people.. for counting people, jehovah forced a decision on david that involved the lives of thousands upon thousands of innocent people.. the choices all dealt with the “way” jehovah would kill thousands of unsuspecting loyal worshipers.. 1 chronicles 21.
“these are the choices the lord has given you.
Joan - I'm not complaining that living things die. Don't be so facile.
I said - It would be impossible to imagine a process of getting to this point in the history of life on earth that would require more gratuitous pain, suffering and waste.
In other words life is perfectly designed to MAXIMISE suffering.
editor's note: found this on reddit...thought the meat of the post would be a good post for discussion here as well.. consider the three choices god forced upon david for taking a census.
these three choices were forced on king david, not for murdering people, not for raping women, not for lying, stealing, or any crime we can think of in our modern world that is repugnant, but simply for taking a census or in other words, counting people.. for counting people, jehovah forced a decision on david that involved the lives of thousands upon thousands of innocent people.. the choices all dealt with the “way” jehovah would kill thousands of unsuspecting loyal worshipers.. 1 chronicles 21.
“these are the choices the lord has given you.
joan - Either god is all-powerful and all-knowing or she isn't.
If she isn't then neither is she god.
If she is then she knowingly initiated a process that led to the agonising deaths of billions of conscious creatures. It would be impossible to imagine a process of getting to this point in the history of life on earth that would require more gratuitous pain, suffering and waste.
brilliant video by a friend of ours in exposing watchtower & the new temple farms/chelmsford branch.
https://youtu.be/dscsobamwsc .
Thank you Kramer
editor's note: found this on reddit...thought the meat of the post would be a good post for discussion here as well.. consider the three choices god forced upon david for taking a census.
these three choices were forced on king david, not for murdering people, not for raping women, not for lying, stealing, or any crime we can think of in our modern world that is repugnant, but simply for taking a census or in other words, counting people.. for counting people, jehovah forced a decision on david that involved the lives of thousands upon thousands of innocent people.. the choices all dealt with the “way” jehovah would kill thousands of unsuspecting loyal worshipers.. 1 chronicles 21.
“these are the choices the lord has given you.
Let us appriciate and and Adore Him for his grand design
Does that include parasites like Baylisacaris procyonis that feed on the eyeballs of children?
a few weeks ago i had an really interesting conversation with three male jws who were loitering around a trolley at the west end of princes street in edinburgh.. i managed to completely avoid giving any hint about my jw past and focussed on why they thought the bible was a reliable moral guide.
i used the subject of slavery to illustrate my concerns.. one of the three was in his early twenties, knew a lot about his own beliefs but nothing about the real life and it was difficult to get through his thought-bubble.
the second one was in his 60s and not very bright.
Thanks
I believe this approach has a lot going for it. It's easier to challenge the Bible than to attack the organisation directly.
There is no adequate response to the challenge of slavery in they OT. The key point is to draw a sharp distinction slavery of Hebrews and non-Hebrews.
Be gentle and Socratic and lead them into an impossible dilemma.
jimmy saville not being exposed until after he died.
(too well connected with royalty & establishment figures?).
the charities comission "enquiry" into the abuse by jw's resulted in nothing more than a telling-off for the "charity".. the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse (https://www.iicsa.org.uk) has so far been a damp squib.. the muslim paedophile gangs in england were tacitly approved of by police & social services.
The biggest issue historically has been Muslim grooming gangs operating in many if not most major cities.
Social services covered it up for fear of being called racist.
That has now been exposed and multiple mass prosecutions are ongoing.
Saville was a disgrace. If anything the establishment has over-reacted by starting prosecutions of celebrities in public with little or no evidence.
The Charity Commission investigation is still ongoing.
So I would say the answer to your question is a definite no.
