let me start with: this is not a discussion of the validity of the bible or whether it is inspired of god.. my question is why do you think they don't use grace in their teachings when this is such paramount teaching in the rest of the christian world.
and why do they not reference the hebrew word for helper in genesis 'ezer'.
this word as applied to a woman seems more dignified as it carries the connotation of strength where the man is weak.
It's a really good question.
Grace disappears when Jesus' sacrifice is transformed from vicarious punishment to a legal transaction.
For most Christians - and for Russell - Jesus died for our sins. For Rutherford he died in order to purchase the value of Adam's perfect life.
There is no room for grace when all a JW has is a clean slate at baptism and then has to begin earning their own salvation by obedience to an organisation.
so familiar and for all the same reasons.. the amish keep to themselves.
and they’re hiding a horrifying secret....
'Virtually every Amish victim I spoke to—mostly women but also several men—told me they were dissuaded by their family or church leaders from reporting their abuse to police or had been conditioned not to seek outside help (as Sadie put it, she knew she’d just be “mocked or blamed”). Some victims said they were intimidated and threatened with excommunication. Their stories describe a widespread, decentralized cover-up of child sexual abuse by Amish clergy.'
This is also the reality in the Watchtower. They now state that victims have the right to go to the police but every JW is 'conditioned' not to do so. Especially if the perpetrator is in good standing in the cult.
so familiar and for all the same reasons.. the amish keep to themselves.
and they’re hiding a horrifying secret....
So familiar and for all the same reasons.
The Amish Keep to Themselves. And They’re Hiding a Horrifying Secret...
ok, you'll have to bear with me with this one.. i want to talk about toasters.
a) a toaster you can buy today, any brand.
b) a toaster invented in 1948. for a bonus, how long do you think a toaster purchased today will keep working?
That is genius! A little bit terrifying but genius.
editor's note: found this on reddit...thought the meat of the post would be a good post for discussion here as well.. consider the three choices god forced upon david for taking a census.
these three choices were forced on king david, not for murdering people, not for raping women, not for lying, stealing, or any crime we can think of in our modern world that is repugnant, but simply for taking a census or in other words, counting people.. for counting people, jehovah forced a decision on david that involved the lives of thousands upon thousands of innocent people.. the choices all dealt with the “way” jehovah would kill thousands of unsuspecting loyal worshipers.. 1 chronicles 21.
“these are the choices the lord has given you.
Joan you clearly have no interest in honest debate. Typical theist.
editor's note: found this on reddit...thought the meat of the post would be a good post for discussion here as well.. consider the three choices god forced upon david for taking a census.
these three choices were forced on king david, not for murdering people, not for raping women, not for lying, stealing, or any crime we can think of in our modern world that is repugnant, but simply for taking a census or in other words, counting people.. for counting people, jehovah forced a decision on david that involved the lives of thousands upon thousands of innocent people.. the choices all dealt with the “way” jehovah would kill thousands of unsuspecting loyal worshipers.. 1 chronicles 21.
“these are the choices the lord has given you.
I did answer it Joan..
Almost every creature that has ever lived perished of starvation, predation, infection, exposure, disease or parasites. Five times - before humans even existed - almost every creature on earth was wiped out in mass extinction events. For 200,000 years humans just like us have lived lives that were nasty, brutish and short.
Take it up on this other thread where it is on topic.
editor's note: found this on reddit...thought the meat of the post would be a good post for discussion here as well.. consider the three choices god forced upon david for taking a census.
these three choices were forced on king david, not for murdering people, not for raping women, not for lying, stealing, or any crime we can think of in our modern world that is repugnant, but simply for taking a census or in other words, counting people.. for counting people, jehovah forced a decision on david that involved the lives of thousands upon thousands of innocent people.. the choices all dealt with the “way” jehovah would kill thousands of unsuspecting loyal worshipers.. 1 chronicles 21.
“these are the choices the lord has given you.
Pre-exile account
Again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah. - 2 Sam. 24
Post-exile version
Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel. - 1 Chron. 21
editor's note: found this on reddit...thought the meat of the post would be a good post for discussion here as well.. consider the three choices god forced upon david for taking a census.
these three choices were forced on king david, not for murdering people, not for raping women, not for lying, stealing, or any crime we can think of in our modern world that is repugnant, but simply for taking a census or in other words, counting people.. for counting people, jehovah forced a decision on david that involved the lives of thousands upon thousands of innocent people.. the choices all dealt with the “way” jehovah would kill thousands of unsuspecting loyal worshipers.. 1 chronicles 21.
“these are the choices the lord has given you.
Gibberish. Am I going to have to spoon-feed you?
Back to the OP topic. The OT is unapologetic about the fact that god behaves capriciously.
It is not until after the exile that the Hebrews adopted Satan from the Zoroastrian religion to serve the role of god's evil nemesis.
editor's note: found this on reddit...thought the meat of the post would be a good post for discussion here as well.. consider the three choices god forced upon david for taking a census.
these three choices were forced on king david, not for murdering people, not for raping women, not for lying, stealing, or any crime we can think of in our modern world that is repugnant, but simply for taking a census or in other words, counting people.. for counting people, jehovah forced a decision on david that involved the lives of thousands upon thousands of innocent people.. the choices all dealt with the “way” jehovah would kill thousands of unsuspecting loyal worshipers.. 1 chronicles 21.
“these are the choices the lord has given you.
I know atheists define evolution as " gratuitous pain, suffering and waste." - Joan
Firstly evolution is not about atheism. Millions of intelligent christians accept the fact of evolution. It is only Muslims and a small percentage if fundy xtians who deny the facts.
Secondly evolution is not immoral it is amoral. There is no moral dimension to reality. It doesn't care.
On the other hand you have the impossible challenge of explaining why the world that you claim was designed and controlled by an omnipotent god is perfectly designed to MAXIMISE suffering and pain. This is a dilemma for theists not for rationalists.
editor's note: found this on reddit...thought the meat of the post would be a good post for discussion here as well.. consider the three choices god forced upon david for taking a census.
these three choices were forced on king david, not for murdering people, not for raping women, not for lying, stealing, or any crime we can think of in our modern world that is repugnant, but simply for taking a census or in other words, counting people.. for counting people, jehovah forced a decision on david that involved the lives of thousands upon thousands of innocent people.. the choices all dealt with the “way” jehovah would kill thousands of unsuspecting loyal worshipers.. 1 chronicles 21.
“these are the choices the lord has given you.
Joan - I'm not complaining that living things die. Don't be so facile.
I said - It would be impossible to imagine a process of getting to this point in the history of life on earth that would require more gratuitous pain, suffering and waste.
In other words life is perfectly designed to MAXIMISE suffering.
