Posts by cofty

41

The ransom makes no sense

by BourneIdentity in

if mankind needed to be redeemed from sin and death, why didn't the redemption happen as soon as jesus successfully lived his entire life without sin and sacrificed his life?

if he was successful, the price was paid and we'd all be living forever.

it's all bullshit, or jesus fucked up and sinned, so it nullified his sacrifice.

It is only the Watchtower that focuses on Jesus' death as a 'ransom'. Russell taught that Jesus died to redeem Adam who would be saved. We were all saved - or given a second chance - by proxy. Rutherford cancelled Adam's redemption and changed it into the value of the perfect life that Adam forfeited.

Ransom is only one of a number of metaphors that NT writers used to describe the effect of Jesus' death. It was a reference to the idea of the emancipation of a slave. Like most metaphors they make less sense the more literally you try to apply them. Primarily early christians - and modern ones - see Jesus' death in terms of vicarious punishment. In other words his punishment on the cross was the punishment christians deserve for their sins. It was this concept that Nelson Barbour rejected leading to a split with Russell.

Why did Jesus die?

JW - to buy back the perfect life that Adam lost by his disobedience.
Christian - He took my punishment for my sins. 'By his stripes we were healed'.

19

Watchtower President Dies From COVID-19!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

watchtower president dies of covid-19.

https://nycinews.com/jehovahs-witnesses-president/?fbclid=iwar3n7jwlxwtmvhkjswhhdxekgxcvogw0jxp-rkyhfb_mg1trztlsb3uhkiw .

petra!.

cofty

Sorry to hear that.

I'm guessing Robert Circanco's role was president of the legal corporation rather than 'spiritual'.

I wonder how much contact he had with GB members. The accomodation blocks at Warwick would be an ideal environment for infection.

26

Jephthah's Daughter

by Sea Breeze in

i have noticed that the foolishness of jephthah's vow to sacrifice his daughter gets bandied around a lot as somehow approved of by god.

i never could understand how people could come to this conclusion.

if i wrote about something terrible that my son had done, that doesn't mean that i am for that thing.

cofty

God demanded Abraham murder his child. God ordered the murder of hundreds of Amalekite infants. God has form.

26

Jephthah's Daughter

by Sea Breeze in

i have noticed that the foolishness of jephthah's vow to sacrifice his daughter gets bandied around a lot as somehow approved of by god.

i never could understand how people could come to this conclusion.

if i wrote about something terrible that my son had done, that doesn't mean that i am for that thing.

cofty

God knew for a whole two months that Jephthah was going to murder his child in order to pay God back for the victory. He did NOTHING. He could have told his High Priest to intervene, he did not.

Jephthah had good reason to think it was the ultimate way to prove his loyalty. God demanded that Abraham murder his child to prove his loyalty and only let him off with a last minute reprieve.

Murdering children is a speciality of Yahweh - especially if their parents are the wrong nationality.

The fact that Jephthah ended up with apparent leprosy, having to be buried in several places because his limbs fell off

You have a strange definition of the word 'fact'. This post-biblical addition is nothing but a fig-leaf to cover Rabbinical embarrassment.

21

Covid 19 Mortality Rates Calculated from CDC Data by Professional Data Analyst

by Sea Breeze in

jw
friends

student (age 6-18) deaths from covid-19-involved illnesses are projected at a rate of 0.0001% as a percentage of their peers.

they died from influenza-involved illnesses at a rate of 0.0005% in 2018.. workforce (age 19-55) deaths from covid-19-involved illnesses are projected at a rate of .01% as a percentage of their peers.

they died from influenza-involved illnesses at a rate of .007% in 2018.. retired (age 66-77) deaths from covid-19-involved illnesses are projected at a rate of 1% as a percentage of their peers.

cofty

This "social distancing" does something else too. It prevents people from getting together and talking about how they are being manipulated by the powers that be - 1234

You're talking about it. You sound like a tin-foil-hat-wearing nutter but you are free to talk.

26

Jephthah's Daughter

by Sea Breeze in

i have noticed that the foolishness of jephthah's vow to sacrifice his daughter gets bandied around a lot as somehow approved of by god.

i never could understand how people could come to this conclusion.

if i wrote about something terrible that my son had done, that doesn't mean that i am for that thing.

cofty

Yes.

Jephthah was appointed leader of Israel. God heard the vow. God knew of Jephthah's intention to murder his child as an offering to him. God did nothing to prevent a crime being carried out in his name. God is culpable.

Jephthah had a precedent in God's demand to Abraham to murder his child as a sacrifice. This time there was no last minute intervention.

Killing people is pretty much Yahweh's job description.

6

There Are Better Songs to Sing

by cofty in

jw
friends

the 1983 film educating rita, written by willy russell and starring michael caine and julie walters, is one of the finest stories ever told.

julie's character is the eponymous working class hairdresser and michael caine plays professor frank bryant her open university tutor assigned, against his will, to teach her english literature.

the dialogue is brilliant and funny but it is the dilemma of an awakening rita caught between two worlds that is deeply moving.

cofty

Yes I recorded it and watched it last night. That pub scene is so poinant.

Great to hear a real life example Mikronboy 👍

26

Jephthah's Daughter

by Sea Breeze in

i have noticed that the foolishness of jephthah's vow to sacrifice his daughter gets bandied around a lot as somehow approved of by god.

i never could understand how people could come to this conclusion.

if i wrote about something terrible that my son had done, that doesn't mean that i am for that thing.

cofty

No. Please read my post again.

I said - 'he remained silent and accepted child sacrifice.'

26

Jephthah's Daughter

by Sea Breeze in

i have noticed that the foolishness of jephthah's vow to sacrifice his daughter gets bandied around a lot as somehow approved of by god.

i never could understand how people could come to this conclusion.

if i wrote about something terrible that my son had done, that doesn't mean that i am for that thing.

cofty

Source please - Sea Breeze

If you give the Ammonites into my hands, whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering ... he did to her as he had vowed - Judges 11

If Jephthah had thought better of his vow and spared the life of his child that would have been the point of the story. Instead the point of the story is Jephthah's willingness to keep his vow and his daughter's acquiescence. The OT is full of examples of Yahweh communicating his wishes to his prophets. On this occasion he remained silent and accepted child sacrifice.

Everything else is hand waving by embarrassed theologians.

God could end evil and suffering by tomorrow morning if he wanted. All he has to do is forcibly take away our free will - Sea Breeze

Countless millions of humans have suffered and died as a result of 'natural evil' that has absolutely nothing to do with free will. Your god does not get to blame the victims. A tsunami proves beyond all doubt that the god of christian theism does not exist.

26

Jephthah's Daughter

by Sea Breeze in

i have noticed that the foolishness of jephthah's vow to sacrifice his daughter gets bandied around a lot as somehow approved of by god.

i never could understand how people could come to this conclusion.

if i wrote about something terrible that my son had done, that doesn't mean that i am for that thing.

cofty

God accepted the sacrifice of the girl. You can't quote later texts to prove god doesn't approve of human sacrifice. In Judges he approved of it.

Nowhere does the bible present a consistent position on anything. It is a story of hundreds of years of human interactions with a deity. In many places - and this is a classic example - the god of the bible is a moral monster and unworthy of our respect.

In the older parts of the OT Yahweh is the source of BOTH good and evil. Dualism - and the convenience of a nemesis to blame for bad things - does not appear until after the Babylonian exile. The Jews adopted the idea of a Satan from Persian Zoroastrianism.

I see you have swapped Questions From Readers for Got Questions. Still letting others do your thinking for you.