Joan - So your defense of your perfect god is that humans are not always very good either.
Wow.
Posts by cofty
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41The ransom makes no sense
by BourneIdentity inif mankind needed to be redeemed from sin and death, why didn't the redemption happen as soon as jesus successfully lived his entire life without sin and sacrificed his life?
if he was successful, the price was paid and we'd all be living forever.
it's all bullshit, or jesus fucked up and sinned, so it nullified his sacrifice.
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41
The ransom makes no sense
by BourneIdentity inif mankind needed to be redeemed from sin and death, why didn't the redemption happen as soon as jesus successfully lived his entire life without sin and sacrificed his life?
if he was successful, the price was paid and we'd all be living forever.
it's all bullshit, or jesus fucked up and sinned, so it nullified his sacrifice.
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cofty
It is only the Watchtower that focuses on Jesus' death as a 'ransom'. Russell taught that Jesus died to redeem Adam who would be saved. We were all saved - or given a second chance - by proxy. Rutherford cancelled Adam's redemption and changed it into the value of the perfect life that Adam forfeited.
Ransom is only one of a number of metaphors that NT writers used to describe the effect of Jesus' death. It was a reference to the idea of the emancipation of a slave. Like most metaphors they make less sense the more literally you try to apply them. Primarily early christians - and modern ones - see Jesus' death in terms of vicarious punishment. In other words his punishment on the cross was the punishment christians deserve for their sins. It was this concept that Nelson Barbour rejected leading to a split with Russell.
Why did Jesus die?
JW - to buy back the perfect life that Adam lost by his disobedience.
Christian - He took my punishment for my sins. 'By his stripes we were healed'. -
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Watchtower President Dies From COVID-19!
by Atlantis inwatchtower president dies of covid-19.
https://nycinews.com/jehovahs-witnesses-president/?fbclid=iwar3n7jwlxwtmvhkjswhhdxekgxcvogw0jxp-rkyhfb_mg1trztlsb3uhkiw .
petra!.
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cofty
Sorry to hear that.
I'm guessing Robert Circanco's role was president of the legal corporation rather than 'spiritual'.
I wonder how much contact he had with GB members. The accomodation blocks at Warwick would be an ideal environment for infection.
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Jephthah's Daughter
by Sea Breeze ini have noticed that the foolishness of jephthah's vow to sacrifice his daughter gets bandied around a lot as somehow approved of by god.
i never could understand how people could come to this conclusion.
if i wrote about something terrible that my son had done, that doesn't mean that i am for that thing.
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cofty
God demanded Abraham murder his child. God ordered the murder of hundreds of Amalekite infants. God has form.
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Jephthah's Daughter
by Sea Breeze ini have noticed that the foolishness of jephthah's vow to sacrifice his daughter gets bandied around a lot as somehow approved of by god.
i never could understand how people could come to this conclusion.
if i wrote about something terrible that my son had done, that doesn't mean that i am for that thing.
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cofty
God knew for a whole two months that Jephthah was going to murder his child in order to pay God back for the victory. He did NOTHING. He could have told his High Priest to intervene, he did not.
Jephthah had good reason to think it was the ultimate way to prove his loyalty. God demanded that Abraham murder his child to prove his loyalty and only let him off with a last minute reprieve.
Murdering children is a speciality of Yahweh - especially if their parents are the wrong nationality.
The fact that Jephthah ended up with apparent leprosy, having to be buried in several places because his limbs fell off
You have a strange definition of the word 'fact'. This post-biblical addition is nothing but a fig-leaf to cover Rabbinical embarrassment.
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Covid 19 Mortality Rates Calculated from CDC Data by Professional Data Analyst
by Sea Breeze instudent (age 6-18) deaths from covid-19-involved illnesses are projected at a rate of 0.0001% as a percentage of their peers.
they died from influenza-involved illnesses at a rate of 0.0005% in 2018.. workforce (age 19-55) deaths from covid-19-involved illnesses are projected at a rate of .01% as a percentage of their peers.
they died from influenza-involved illnesses at a rate of .007% in 2018.. retired (age 66-77) deaths from covid-19-involved illnesses are projected at a rate of 1% as a percentage of their peers.
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cofty
This "social distancing" does something else too. It prevents people from getting together and talking about how they are being manipulated by the powers that be - 1234
You're talking about it. You sound like a tin-foil-hat-wearing nutter but you are free to talk.
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Jephthah's Daughter
by Sea Breeze ini have noticed that the foolishness of jephthah's vow to sacrifice his daughter gets bandied around a lot as somehow approved of by god.
i never could understand how people could come to this conclusion.
if i wrote about something terrible that my son had done, that doesn't mean that i am for that thing.
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cofty
Yes.
Jephthah was appointed leader of Israel. God heard the vow. God knew of Jephthah's intention to murder his child as an offering to him. God did nothing to prevent a crime being carried out in his name. God is culpable.
Jephthah had a precedent in God's demand to Abraham to murder his child as a sacrifice. This time there was no last minute intervention.
Killing people is pretty much Yahweh's job description.
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6
There Are Better Songs to Sing
by cofty inthe 1983 film educating rita, written by willy russell and starring michael caine and julie walters, is one of the finest stories ever told.
julie's character is the eponymous working class hairdresser and michael caine plays professor frank bryant her open university tutor assigned, against his will, to teach her english literature.
the dialogue is brilliant and funny but it is the dilemma of an awakening rita caught between two worlds that is deeply moving.
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cofty
Yes I recorded it and watched it last night. That pub scene is so poinant.
Great to hear a real life example Mikronboy 👍
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Jephthah's Daughter
by Sea Breeze ini have noticed that the foolishness of jephthah's vow to sacrifice his daughter gets bandied around a lot as somehow approved of by god.
i never could understand how people could come to this conclusion.
if i wrote about something terrible that my son had done, that doesn't mean that i am for that thing.
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cofty
No. Please read my post again.
I said - 'he remained silent and accepted child sacrifice.'
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Jephthah's Daughter
by Sea Breeze ini have noticed that the foolishness of jephthah's vow to sacrifice his daughter gets bandied around a lot as somehow approved of by god.
i never could understand how people could come to this conclusion.
if i wrote about something terrible that my son had done, that doesn't mean that i am for that thing.
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cofty
Source please - Sea Breeze
If you give the Ammonites into my hands, whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering ... he did to her as he had vowed - Judges 11
If Jephthah had thought better of his vow and spared the life of his child that would have been the point of the story. Instead the point of the story is Jephthah's willingness to keep his vow and his daughter's acquiescence. The OT is full of examples of Yahweh communicating his wishes to his prophets. On this occasion he remained silent and accepted child sacrifice.
Everything else is hand waving by embarrassed theologians.
God could end evil and suffering by tomorrow morning if he wanted. All he has to do is forcibly take away our free will - Sea Breeze
Countless millions of humans have suffered and died as a result of 'natural evil' that has absolutely nothing to do with free will. Your god does not get to blame the victims. A tsunami proves beyond all doubt that the god of christian theism does not exist.