SB I already described the chemical process that preserves organic matter for millions of years.
Posts by cofty
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42God and Unicorns
by Sea Breeze inatheist scientists now agree that "elasmotherium sibiricu" lived with humans.
all they had to do was read their bible to know that.
job 39:9 “will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?”.
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168
Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
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cofty
Dreary weather - I think it's a reasonable response for theists to object that god cannot be held responsible for the actions of humans when he has told us not to do those things.
But that doesn't begin to get him off the hook.
He specifically advocates for evil actions such as slavery, kidnap, rape and genocide. Jesus told his disciples to literally abandon their wives and children to follow him.
But more damningly is the evil that god does himself. He made a world that is perfectly designed to maximise suffering. No creature dies peacefully in its bed. All fall victim to disease, starvation, exposure or predation. That includes all of our human ancestors. The entire history of life on earth is one of carnage.
Then there are the natural disasters that are entirely of god's making. Tens of thousands of innocent children drowned in a tsunami that god could have prevented without any impact on free will.
The most popular response from theists is to assert that god can do anything that he wishes. I agree. But he can't behave like an evil monster AND be the god and father of 'gentle Jesus meek and mild' who keeps track of the number of hairs on our heads.
They say we just can't possibly understand god's ways. But that doesn't work. It negates the ministry of Jesus who came to reveal a god of love and show how that love is demonstrated in action, caring for the practical needs of others.
In years of discussing this topic I have yet to meet a theist who will face the challenge of theodicy with intellectual honesty. In this thread Sea Breeze has taken dishonesty to a whole new level. I have sent a PM to appeal for a more useful conversation. Time will tell.
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168
Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
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cofty
Dozens. Good night
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168
Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
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cofty
You are the very stereotype of an ideologue who is incapable or unwilling to engage honestly with anybody who doesn't share your worldview.
You have taken everything I and nicolaou have said and presented it as the exact opposite of what we actually said.
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168
Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
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cofty
It's becoming akin to playing chess with a pigeon. Your reply is an embarrassment.
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168
Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
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cofty
Please consider that post with the same effort it took to write it.
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168
Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
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cofty
Subjective morality is probably synonymous with personal preference. You have already indicated that this is what you confuse with morality without god. You are wrong in this conclusion. It is a common canard of christians to present a false dichotomy between morality based on god or everybody choosing whether or not to eat babies.
Objective morality is the task of making moral judgements on the basis of a standard we can agree on with others. I have summarised this foundation as the 'flourishing of conscious creatures'. We know the basic needs of other humans since we all share the same physiology. It is always harmful to another person to kidnap and rape them. On this basis we can say that it is OBJECTIVELY wrong to do these things. It does not matter if somebody else does not share this view. They are wrong, objectively wrong.
John Rawls suggests a 'veil of ignorance' as a useful thought experiment in thinking about morality. Imagine yourself in an original position behind a veil of ignorance. Behind this veil, you know nothing of yourself and your natural abilities, or your position in society. You know nothing of your sex, race, nationality, or individual tastes. Behind such a veil of ignorance all individuals are simply specified as rational, free, and morally equal beings. From this position we can begin to think objectively about right and wrong. It is a more sophisticated version of 'do unto others' which predates Jesus of Nazareth by many centuries.
Absolute morality is a term favoured by theists and constantly confused with objective morality. It is synonymous with morality with divine fiat. Those things are good which god says are good and vice-versa.
But how do we know what god says? We have an ancient book but it prescribes moral standards of Iron Age goat herders. Sometimes it advocates love and at other times it positively approves of slavery, kidnap, rape and infanticide. It recommends behaviour that we all find repulsive. Should we follow our conscience or the revealed word of god?
God is a hindrance to objective morality.
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168
Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
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cofty
What is the difference between subjective - objective and absolute morality?
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168
Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
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cofty
You've already said that the term: "morals" is simply descriptive in nature.
No I didn't what does that even mean?
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168
Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
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cofty
Stop adding to your posts after I have answered it makes conversation impossible