Life on Mars would not rule out the existence of an intelligent god, gods or goddesses - FHN
New life in the lab would make her redundant as a source of life. That would be a huge challenge for theism.
Posts by cofty
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405Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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cofty
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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cofty
but even slightly degraded complex once-alive compounds.. - Prologos
It is highly unlikely anything would progress as far as "life" in our aerobic world that is teeming with existing life in every conceivable niche.
The Alkaline Vents in which life probably appeared are not the same environments as they were 4 billion years ago.
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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cofty
by pointing out that the idea that scientific discoveries can settle questions about the nature or existence of God is itself questionable - SBF
I said absolutely nothing about the existence of god.
views that question your approach at a more fundamental level ...
Which is code for the pseudo-intellectual, vacuous po-mo, bullshit you spout ad nauseum. Troll.
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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cofty
It's because the rest of your argument is based on a hypothetical where you project your biases and disdain for the opposing view.
Origin-of-life science is all about hypotheses. What did you expect?
I expressed my total contempt for SBF's bullshit attempt to destroy the conversation before it began. I am very interested in opposing views on this topic. That is why I started it. I find Vidqun's previous post to be very honest and interesting. Basically he, like many other theists are hoping it will never happen.
There's no real substance added with this post other than it just being a starting point for the ever going origin of life debate, which I know you love being a part of, but, usually your posts are substantive.
Yes. Forgive me for not spending hours over every OP I write. Just most of them.
Another thread outlining the latest developments in bio-genesis research would have been much more instructive and constructive.
I might do that. The point of this thread is to talk about how success in origin-of-life science would impact on theism. I think it is interesting.
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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cofty
Just to echo A Ha's comment about oxygen. Life originated on an anaerobic earth.
Oxygen was a toxic byproduct of the respiration of cyanobacteria that are the ancestors of the chloroplasts that perform photosynthesis in green plants.
Aerobic bacteria learned how to use this oxygen as an electron acceptor. Some of these are the ancestors of our mitochondria. In the end oxygen is the death of all of us.
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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cofty
this post adds no benefit to the discussion and comes off as a prideful grasping at straws, with much projecting and worthless argumentation. - Sanchy
Why would you think that my statement of fact that - In recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet - is "grasping at straws"?
Is it because you are not aware of recent developments in origin-of-life science? I have very little doubt that the solution - or at least a solution - is not too far beyond our grasp. The specific details have already been laid out in detail. Now the hard work is going on in labs around the world to see if each of the steps can be shown to work.
If you are interested I would be happy to explain some of the details.
Please don't be distracted by stories of "primordial soup". That is a dead end.
I think you should stick to the facts, they are on your side my friend. - Sanchy
I am really not straying beyond facts for a moment.
If it is easy to cobble these processes together, even with simplified, rudimentary precursors, we should be seeing results quite soon - Vidqun
It is really really NOT easy. Some of the best biochemists in the world are working on it though and making progress.
I'm genuinely interested in how it would affect your worldview if/when it does happen. It is assumed by theists that "life" is a special thing that emanates from god alone - "with him is the source of life". If science can show that life begins spontaneously under the correct chemical conditions then surely that would have profound theological implications.
The majority of christians have accepted the fact of evolution and found a way to accommodate it within their theology. I wonder if it would be so easy to adapt the the knowledge that life is a purely naturalistic process.
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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cofty
Vidqun your comment betrays the mistaken idea that a cell is animated by a force called life. It is nothing like that. There are simple precursors of all of those complex systems.
I'minterested in how you would accommodate this within your worldview. Would denial be your only option?
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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cofty
Maybe if you made the effort to understand the idea you would be less confident that it can't be done.
It's only a matter of time.
I'm curious to know how you will deal with it when it happens. I suppose we have an answer already - denial.
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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cofty
would that not prove that it is not unique?
It would prove that life is not "magic".
That is why answers like Vidqun's are so dishonest. All theists assume that there is something special about LIFE - a ghost in the machine that originates with god. If science succeeds it will prove what scientists already know. Life is a physical process not a thing.
Theists believe there is no life without a "lifegiver". Science says all you need is rock, water and carbon dioxide.
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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cofty
I will just say: See you need an intelligent mind to create life. - Vidqun
But that would be disingenuous.
When scientists do succeed it will prove that life is not an ethereal force emanating from god. That will have real theological implications.
The idea that science can answer ultimate questions about existence - SBF
It has nothing at all to do with answering "ultimate questions" How the process of life began is a scientific puzzle not a metaphysical one. That is the point. It's not about whether god exists, it's simply about how the process of life gets started.
You are a troll. You constantly hijack threads with your tedious po-mo bullshit.
is not most life's energy a fire, oxydation? - Prologos
Yes that is true. There is a process called chemiosmosis that is common to every living thing including bacteria, archaea and complex multicellular life. Cells use the energy from redox reactions to pump protons across a membrane. They then flow back through a protein complex called the AT synthase to turn ADP into ATP - the universal currency of energy.
We quite literally "burn" food by stripping electrons from glucose and passing it on step by step to oxygen.