The WT have no power to gag the BBC. Truth is a valid defense against accusations of libel.
The coverage yesterday was excellent.
Posts by cofty
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15Angry the BBC covered J.W. child abuse on the national TV news at 1pm but not 6pm or 10pm
by Isambard Crater indid the j.w lawyers gag the bbc or something?
not even newsnight covered it.
it was given 3 minutes every hour on the 24-hour bbc news channel though i guess..
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44
Please explain the Watchtower's "Ransom" for me
by Doug Mason inaccording to the watchtower:.
who received the ransom payment?.
why did the ransomer need to be paid?.
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cofty
We still sin, get sick and die - truthseeker
Still playing Devil's Advocate...
The problem is that you are still thinking like a JW about physical and material rewards. The christian gospel was about forgiveness of sins and reconciliation with god in this life.
Has the Watchtower ever given a straight answer to the question: who was the Ransom paid to? - SBF
I think their answer to that is similar to classic theism. Ransom is just one of many metaphors used to describe the "work of Christ" on the cross. It is a mistake to push a metaphor too far. The key point is the price paid to release believers from sin. The NT doesn't answer the question of who it was paid to but if you had to answer it would probably be Divine justice.
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44
Please explain the Watchtower's "Ransom" for me
by Doug Mason inaccording to the watchtower:.
who received the ransom payment?.
why did the ransomer need to be paid?.
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cofty
The message, kerygma, of the early church was not about petting pandas in paradise of even playing harps in heaven but about forgiveness of sins through faith in the "work" of Jesus.
Here is Paul's message in Antioch ...
“Therefore, my friends, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses." - Acts 13
The WT teaches a different gospel of their own invention.
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44
Please explain the Watchtower's "Ransom" for me
by Doug Mason inaccording to the watchtower:.
who received the ransom payment?.
why did the ransomer need to be paid?.
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cofty
Why not just forgive the sin? Even if you must punish Adam and Eve why punish the children that havent been born yet?
Christians don't fixate on Adam in the same way, that is a JW thing.
Adam was more like a representative of humanity. The focus in the gospel is on our personal responsibility for our actual sinful actions. For those we deserve death but the price has been paid on our behalf by Jesus.
The idea of vicarious punishment is crucial - pun intended. It was central to the Jewish sacrificial system where the blood - representing the life - of sheep and goats stood in place of the lives of sinful Hebrews. Jesus became the "Lamb of god that takes away the sin of the world".
The gospel as preached by the early church was about a restoring of relationship between god and the penitent sinner in the present life. It was about spiritual restoration as opposed to the JW gospel which is materialistic in nature.
Disclaimer - I am not defending this idea as either rational or moral.
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BBC: Victims 'told not to report' Jehovah's Witness child abuse
by Lostandfound intoday on bbc news site http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42025255 sorry about typo in heading big story on bbc news in uk.
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cofty
Pressure is growing.
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44
Please explain the Watchtower's "Ransom" for me
by Doug Mason inaccording to the watchtower:.
who received the ransom payment?.
why did the ransomer need to be paid?.
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cofty
The non-JW christian gospel simply ...
A perfectly righteous god cannot overlook sin. Therefore we are alienated from god by our sin.
Sinless Jesus took on himself all of our sins and vicariously received the punishment for them on the cross. "He who did not know sin he made to be sin for us..."
God could then be righteous when he declares sinners to be righteous whose penalty has been paid by Jesus.
Disclaimer - I am not defending this idea as either rational or moral.
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44
Please explain the Watchtower's "Ransom" for me
by Doug Mason inaccording to the watchtower:.
who received the ransom payment?.
why did the ransomer need to be paid?.
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cofty
EverApostate - I'm not defending the gospel I'm explaining it.
Non-believers should make the effort to understand stuff before they criticise it. It's no different from christians attacking evolution without understanding it.
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44
Please explain the Watchtower's "Ransom" for me
by Doug Mason inaccording to the watchtower:.
who received the ransom payment?.
why did the ransomer need to be paid?.
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cofty
If the ransom would be for Adam, he would be a candidate for the resurrection, which wt denies - Waton
Russell taught that Adam was redeemed and would be raised.
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44
Please explain the Watchtower's "Ransom" for me
by Doug Mason inaccording to the watchtower:.
who received the ransom payment?.
why did the ransomer need to be paid?.
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cofty
Don't you think it is worth trying to properly understand the things we rightly condemn?
The WT doctrine of the Ransom bears absolutely no resemblance to the christian gospel. Ask any christian about why Jesus had to die and they will talk about how Jesus suffered the punishment for their sins. This is how the early church explained Jesus' death. Vicarious punishment was also an important part of Russell's doctrine. It was the very thing he fell out with Barbour about.
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44
Please explain the Watchtower's "Ransom" for me
by Doug Mason inaccording to the watchtower:.
who received the ransom payment?.
why did the ransomer need to be paid?.
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cofty
Russell originally taught that Jesus died only for Adam - one perfect life for one perfect life.
The rest of mankind were redeemed by proxy as they were as yet unborn in "Adam's loins".
"One redeemer was quite sufficient in the plan which God adopted, because only one had sinned, and only one had been condemned. Others shared his condemnation…One unforfeited life could redeem one forfeited life and no more." - Divine Plan of the Ages p.132 (1886)
Rutherford initially went along with this doctrine but, speaking like a lawyer, he presented it like a financial transaction.
In Rutherford’s book, “The Harp of God”, published in 1921, he used an illustration concerning three men, John, Charles, and Mr. Smith. John is in prison unable to pay a $100 fine. His brother Charles has no money but does have time and energy. It is argued that, just as Charles’ strength could not help John directly, neither could Jesus’ life redeem Adam. So Charles works for Mr. Smith to turn his energy into cash which he uses to free John. Similarly: Jesus must reduce his perfect humanity to a purchasing value, which we may call merit, and which merit or purchasing value would be sufficient for the payment of Adam’s debt and release Adam and his offspring from that judgement. In order to provide this price it was necessary for Jesus to die. – p.142
In 1939 however Rutherford made a significant change to this unique doctrine.
"The judgement entered against Adam was just, it must stand forever....
This text does not say or mean that Adam was or is ransomed, but does mean that the human perfection once possessed by the perfect man Adam (and which human perfection carried with it the right to life, which life and right thereto were forfeited by the wilful disobedience of Adam) is purchased or bought back or ransomed for Adam’s offspring, who were prevented from receiving that life and right thereto by reason of Adam’s sin – Salvation p.176.
In my opinion this strange interpretation of the meaning of Jesus' death - the doctrine of soteriology - is the single most important factor that distinguishes JWs from christianity.