cofty

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Posts by cofty

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  51

  Without god what is the basis of morality?

  by OneEyedJoe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

  my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

  " previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

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  cofty

  'Morality' is the name we give to the way we worry about the way our actions affect other conscious creatures.

  When we use the words 'should' or 'ought' in a sentence we need to recognise the unspoken part of the statement.

  If our goal is to promote the flourishing of conscious creatures, then we ought to ...... (fill in moral edict)

  This is how we get an 'ought' from an 'is' - David Hume was wrong about that. For example it is an objective fact that female genital mutilation does not promote human flourishing. Therefore we can state that it is objectively wrong.

  The problem with religious morality is that it is confused about its objective. Is it to promote the welfare of others - love your neighbour as yourself - or is it to unthinkingly obey a omnipotent lawgiver?

  In practice it is both, but then we encounter a dilemma when obeying god leads to damaging the welfare of others. Religion has no moral system; it has a shopping list of edicts with no underlying foundation.

  Genuine objective morality is only possible by first putting aside religion's claims on our ethics.

  If somebody does not agree that human flourishing is the only sensible basis for morality then they need to define what they mean by morality.
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  32

  This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.

  brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.

  it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....

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  cofty

  higher intelligence will serve only to come up with better arguments to defend a wrong position - Waton

  I also found that very interesting. It's so important that we have the courage to face challenges to our beliefs with honesty.

  Having said all of the above, I still believe that presenting evidence to people with strongly entrenched ideas can pay dividends in the long-run. However there is usually some crisis of faith before the things they heard previously become significant. It might be a change in doctrine or a personal grievance.

  In my own case it was facts that convinced me to leave but it was the dishonesty and arrogance of the GB regarding the 'generation' that prompted me to investigate.
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  36

  Anybody here still believe in the bible?

  by Mel Morris in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm a current bible student of jw's looking to chat with someone about biblical doctrine.

  i'm not interested in talking with an apostate or a fader, i'm just a person looking for answers and wondered if there are any neutral voices in this forum who have good insights into the bible.

  i currently talk with a couple of jw's on a personal level from my congregation and they are knowledgeable to a certain extent, but i dare not ask them certain questions because, as you know, the congregation has a culture of fear that impacts trust and openness, especially concerning biblical doctrine or the societies teachings.

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  cofty

  Hi Mel. There are lots of very knowledgeable people here who can help you with any bible topic you would like to discuss. It's inevitable you will have interactions here with ex-JWs and people who have concluded through extensive research that the bible is not 'inspired'.

  Don't be afraid of having those conversations. Truth has nothing to fear.
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  32

  This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.

  brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.

  it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....

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  cofty

  This Article Won’t Change Your Mind - The facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs

  Brilliant article in The Atlantic by Julie Beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs. It includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.

  Spoiler - She is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.

  The article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.

  Link...
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  19

  Lengthy letter re: End Time Events / read ONLY if you still believe in God.

  by mother Teresa in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  shalom,.

  my mom's family is mostly jws.

  during her second marriage, i attended the weekly meeting and sunday meetings (by my own choice) with a family in the very small town we lived, since my mom didn’t attend.

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  cofty

  Please please tell me AGuest hasn't returned! Do you hear voices?

  If you want to put your feet up on a Saturday just do it, don't preach about it.
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  10

  Christopher Hitchens at the "Festival of Dangerous Ideas"

  by Finkelstein in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hitchens has some provocative thoughts about where much of today's monotheist beliefs originated which came out of inarguable human ignorance and how potentially dangerous and redundant they are in this modren day.

  .

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwihkm126bk.

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  cofty

  Perry, Hitch made so much more sense with a drink than you ever have sober.
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  33

  Child sacrifice and Jesus' sacrifice

  by Whynot in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jeremiah 7:31 says, "they have built the high places of toʹpheth, which is in the valley of the son of hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that i had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’".

  according to this scripture it's unthinkable for jehovah to be pleased with child sacrifices.

  but yet he sent his son to be killed as a sacrifice for all?.

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  cofty

  A capricious deity propitiated by the sight of a broken and bleeding corpse.

  The core of christianity is no different from every other ancient death-cult.

  
  
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  31

  Do You Think The Mayor of London Is Doing a Good Job?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  his city seems pretty dangerous especially since he has taken over and of course he just loves trump.

  lol .

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  cofty

  Snare - It's a subscription-only article
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  193

  tommy Robinson --update

  by zeb in

  1. social
  2. current

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk8b_xqi_nm.

  this is self explanatory.

  please if you are in a commonwealth country write /phone /fax your local member to support tr release from his current place of imprisonment.. you may not receive any reply but do so anyway.

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  cofty

  The sexy you belong to in any of these religions directly affects their orthodoxy

  That's a brilliant example of predictive texting.

  Of course you are correct that the bible and the quran and the Hadith are appallingly bad guides to morality.

  How many Muslim-majority countries can you name where minorities feel safe? How about women's rights? How many grant their population freedom of speech and of worship?

  Despite its history Christianity has largely matured and become relatively harmless. When the occasional xtian nutter crosses a line the rest of christianity is very quick to condemn. We openly mock Westboro. The same cannot be said for Islam. It's like the slow kid in the class.

  Some immigration from Muslim majority countries by individuals who wish to adopt western values of personal freedom and liberal democracy is fine. Mass immigration by those who see integration as sinful is a threat to the future of Europe.
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  13

  The bread pan illustration is totally flawed

  by purrpurr in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just suddenly occured to me today.... you know the jws always say about adams sin being passed on to his descendants that its like you have a bread pan with a dent in it and that every loaf of bread will then have a dent?

  well that's fine for bread, cos your using the same pan.

  but that's not how genetics work?.

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  cofty

  It's a good question purrpurr.

  I don't think the WT has ever defined what they actually mean when they say Adam became 'imperfect' or how it differs from 'perfection'.

  How did he pass on 'imperfection' exactly?

  They did state a long time ago that 'imperfection' can only be passed on by the man but I don't know if they ever revised that bit of nonsense.