You are making generalisations. Some people will leave based on new information even if nobody else agrees. I was one such person and I have encountered many more on this forum.
Posts by cofty
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32This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read
by cofty inthis article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.
brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.
it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....
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51
Without god what is the basis of morality?
by OneEyedJoe ini'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?
my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?
" previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.
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cofty
Sometimes in these discussions it seems as if we assume that unless there is an objective or absolute basis for morality, then it is empty or there is no point.
Objective and absolute are two different things.
There is no 'absolute' foundation of morality but neither is it subjective.
The flourishing of conscious creatures is the only objective basis for morality.
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51
Without god what is the basis of morality?
by OneEyedJoe ini'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?
my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?
" previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.
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cofty
And Cofty I already know you don’t believe God exists. You think I would still be unsure where you stand on this?
You don't believe that a personal god who communicates moral edicts exists.
How often do you actually argue a point with even a modicum of sincerity?
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51
Without god what is the basis of morality?
by OneEyedJoe ini'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?
my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?
" previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.
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cofty
God gets to decide what is right and wrong.
No such god exists so your point is moot.
Ethics are about how our actions affect others for good or ill. That is the only rational basis for morality.
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32
This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read
by cofty inthis article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.
brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.
it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....
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cofty
facts and logic don’t change people's mind - SBF
many are leaving the organisation after finding information online - Also SBF
Muddled thinking there SBF.
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32
This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read
by cofty inthis article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.
brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.
it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....
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cofty
Thank you Anders, that is a very interesting article.
Very clever of Kahan to measure 'curiosity'.
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22
Do You Typically Accept The Press As Being Unbiased And Honest?
by minimus inthere is more “ yellow journalism “ than ever before!
newscasters and writers that you thought were trustworthy often miss the mark.. do you generally accept the “news” as being honest?.
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cofty
SBF is sinking to the depths of 9/11 conspiracy nuts.
Russian security services murder their traitors abroad. They use poison. How many examples do you need exactly? You are a useful idiot.
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36
Anybody here still believe in the bible?
by Mel Morris ini'm a current bible student of jw's looking to chat with someone about biblical doctrine.
i'm not interested in talking with an apostate or a fader, i'm just a person looking for answers and wondered if there are any neutral voices in this forum who have good insights into the bible.
i currently talk with a couple of jw's on a personal level from my congregation and they are knowledgeable to a certain extent, but i dare not ask them certain questions because, as you know, the congregation has a culture of fear that impacts trust and openness, especially concerning biblical doctrine or the societies teachings.
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cofty
Through my personal experiences and research I've found the societies teachings closest to the foundational teachings and beliefs of the early apostles and the christian congregation.
The most foundational doctrine of the early church involved their relationship with Jesus.
I agree that the Trinity is a post-biblical development but The Watchtower's view of Jesus is radically different from that of the Apostles.
Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church...
Conclusion from above link - In view of this sample of texts quoted above, it would seem reasonable to say that Jehovah's Witnesses do not speak about Jesus in the same manner as early Christians did. The apostles described themselves as witnesses of Jesus, they called him their only owner and Lord, and the one to whom they belonged. They were baptised in his name, led by his Spirit, rejoiced in his blessing and overflowed with praise for him. All of these statements are incompatible with the beliefs and practice of Jehovah's Witnesses. Even if an individual Witness may feel comfortable with such expressions they could never voice such sentiments in the hearing of others. There can be no doubt that if a Jehovah's Witness were to go back to a meeting of early Christians they would feel profoundly out of place.
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51
Without god what is the basis of morality?
by OneEyedJoe ini'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?
my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?
" previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.
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cofty
'Morality' is the name we give to the way we worry about the way our actions affect other conscious creatures.
When we use the words 'should' or 'ought' in a sentence we need to recognise the unspoken part of the statement.
If our goal is to promote the flourishing of conscious creatures, then we ought to ...... (fill in moral edict)
This is how we get an 'ought' from an 'is' - David Hume was wrong about that. For example it is an objective fact that female genital mutilation does not promote human flourishing. Therefore we can state that it is objectively wrong.
The problem with religious morality is that it is confused about its objective. Is it to promote the welfare of others - love your neighbour as yourself - or is it to unthinkingly obey a omnipotent lawgiver?
In practice it is both, but then we encounter a dilemma when obeying god leads to damaging the welfare of others. Religion has no moral system; it has a shopping list of edicts with no underlying foundation.
Genuine objective morality is only possible by first putting aside religion's claims on our ethics.
If somebody does not agree that human flourishing is the only sensible basis for morality then they need to define what they mean by morality.
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32
This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read
by cofty inthis article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.
brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.
it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....
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cofty
higher intelligence will serve only to come up with better arguments to defend a wrong position - Waton
I also found that very interesting. It's so important that we have the courage to face challenges to our beliefs with honesty.
Having said all of the above, I still believe that presenting evidence to people with strongly entrenched ideas can pay dividends in the long-run. However there is usually some crisis of faith before the things they heard previously become significant. It might be a change in doctrine or a personal grievance.
In my own case it was facts that convinced me to leave but it was the dishonesty and arrogance of the GB regarding the 'generation' that prompted me to investigate.