cofty

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Posts by cofty

• 
  51

  Without god what is the basis of morality?

  by OneEyedJoe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

  my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

  " previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

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  cofty

  So Perry I take it your answer is that you have no interest in a sincere conversation on this topic.
• 
  23

  NWT support of John 1:1. Punching holes in it

  by LevelThePlayingField in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is what they have in the new world translation index 6a to support their version of john 1:1. they are not honest even to their own people.

  they list the year of the bible, rendering, and source.

  but there's only two sources that actually lend any type of support to their argument.

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• 

  cofty

  You also need to look at the Bible as a whole

  That is a mistake that JWs and other bible-believing christians make. There is no such thing as 'the bible as a whole'. It is a collection of books which each reveal the different beliefs, biases and purposes of their authors.

  The 'bible' has no coherent Christology.

  How the author of Mark (whoever he was he wasn't Mark) understood Jesus in a very different way from the anonymous author of John, which again was different again from the OT prophets.
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  23

  NWT support of John 1:1. Punching holes in it

  by LevelThePlayingField in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is what they have in the new world translation index 6a to support their version of john 1:1. they are not honest even to their own people.

  they list the year of the bible, rendering, and source.

  but there's only two sources that actually lend any type of support to their argument.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  I think Moffatt's 'the Word was Divine...' is a reasonable translation.

  The Trinity is a post biblical development that appears nowhere in the NT. There is an evolution of doctrine regarding the divinity of Jesus in the NT but it doesn't reach an unqualified level of deity until later.
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  51

  Without god what is the basis of morality?

  by OneEyedJoe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

  my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

  " previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

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• 

  cofty

  Perry - you have argued against a straw-man that nobody has argued for.

  Would you actually like to have a sincere discussion about morality? Why not read previous posts on the thread about the objective foundation for godless morality and respond to what has actually been said.
• 
  32

  This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.

  brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.

  it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....

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• 

  cofty

  So you agree with the article you posted or not? - SBF

  Yes I do. It describes a common psychological tendency not a universal law.

  You are seriously misrepresenting it because it lends support to your misconceptions. Ironic isn't it?

  We make decisions on the basis of 1) what other people are doing and 2) what authority figures say.

  These are factors in some decisions, some of the time, which we do well to be aware of.
  
• 
  32

  This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.

  brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.

  it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....

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• 

  cofty

  You are making generalisations. Some people will leave based on new information even if nobody else agrees. I was one such person and I have encountered many more on this forum.
• 
  51

  Without god what is the basis of morality?

  by OneEyedJoe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

  my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

  " previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Sometimes in these discussions it seems as if we assume that unless there is an objective or absolute basis for morality, then it is empty or there is no point.

  Objective and absolute are two different things.

  There is no 'absolute' foundation of morality but neither is it subjective.

  The flourishing of conscious creatures is the only objective basis for morality.
  
  
• 
  51

  Without god what is the basis of morality?

  by OneEyedJoe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

  my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

  " previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  And Cofty I already know you don’t believe God exists. You think I would still be unsure where you stand on this?

  You don't believe that a personal god who communicates moral edicts exists.

  How often do you actually argue a point with even a modicum of sincerity?
• 
  51

  Without god what is the basis of morality?

  by OneEyedJoe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

  my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

  " previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  cofty

  God gets to decide what is right and wrong.

  No such god exists so your point is moot.

  Ethics are about how our actions affect others for good or ill. That is the only rational basis for morality.
• 
  32

  This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.

  brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.

  it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  facts and logic don’t change people's mind - SBF

  many are leaving the organisation after finding information online - Also SBF

  Muddled thinking there SBF.