Posts by cofty

89

Is Jesus Christ, Jehovah God? (Not the Father, but Equal to the Father)

by JW Answers in

jehovah's witnesses,is jesus christ, jehovah god?

(not the father, but equal to the father)what if the watchtower told you about god in a false way, and yet the bible taught you about god in his true character, how would you respond?could it be true, that the watchtower have been leading you up the garden path, describing god in a way that the bible does not describe?

please watch my latest video to help you to see how the bible describes the lord jesus christ, and also within my video, i explain from the new world translation how the bible which the jws use, also describes jesus as jehovah god.

cofty

You are too nice Vanderhoven. Steel has form.

Inconvenient facts prompt aggression from people who are heavily invested in certain theological positions.

89

Is Jesus Christ, Jehovah God? (Not the Father, but Equal to the Father)

by JW Answers in

jehovah's witnesses,is jesus christ, jehovah god?

(not the father, but equal to the father)what if the watchtower told you about god in a false way, and yet the bible taught you about god in his true character, how would you respond?could it be true, that the watchtower have been leading you up the garden path, describing god in a way that the bible does not describe?

please watch my latest video to help you to see how the bible describes the lord jesus christ, and also within my video, i explain from the new world translation how the bible which the jws use, also describes jesus as jehovah god.

cofty

You might enjoy this lecture by Bart Ehrman. If you search YouTube for 'Ehrman + How Jesus Became God' you will find a much longer, three-part version, of this theme.

...

89

Is Jesus Christ, Jehovah God? (Not the Father, but Equal to the Father)

by JW Answers in

jehovah's witnesses,is jesus christ, jehovah god?

(not the father, but equal to the father)what if the watchtower told you about god in a false way, and yet the bible taught you about god in his true character, how would you respond?could it be true, that the watchtower have been leading you up the garden path, describing god in a way that the bible does not describe?

please watch my latest video to help you to see how the bible describes the lord jesus christ, and also within my video, i explain from the new world translation how the bible which the jws use, also describes jesus as jehovah god.

cofty

The books of Luke, Mark and Matthew are called the synoptic gossips and don't really deal with larger issue of who Jesus was. - Steel

Mark, Matthew and Luke are not called the synoptic gossips, they are called the synoptic gospels.

Who Jesus was is precisely what they deal with. Have you never bothered to read them?

89

Is Jesus Christ, Jehovah God? (Not the Father, but Equal to the Father)

by JW Answers in

jehovah's witnesses,is jesus christ, jehovah god?

(not the father, but equal to the father)what if the watchtower told you about god in a false way, and yet the bible taught you about god in his true character, how would you respond?could it be true, that the watchtower have been leading you up the garden path, describing god in a way that the bible does not describe?

please watch my latest video to help you to see how the bible describes the lord jesus christ, and also within my video, i explain from the new world translation how the bible which the jws use, also describes jesus as jehovah god.

cofty

FFS cofy you sound exactly like a watchtower Muppet. Quoting things out of context, circular reasoning etc etc, not understanding old testament references. Go find your nearest hall and get back in the Borg - Steel

So you have nothing intelligent to say about Christology then Steel?

So far I have made the following points. Which of them is out of context or amounts to 'circular reasoning exactly? (or did throwing in the name of a random fallacy just make you feel clever?)

1 - The bible does not present a coherent Christology. Paul, the author of Mark, the authors of Matthew and Luke and the author of John have different perspectives about Jesus.

2 - The trinity is a post-biblical development.

3 - The bible nowhere contains a straightforward statement of the trinity doctrine and the Johannine Comma is not supported by the oldest and most reliable manuscripts.

4 - The bible does contain many verses that identify Jesus as God but it also contains many other verses that do the opposite. The many references the God and Father of Jesus are one such example.

5 - It is impossible to state the trinity in non-esoteric terms without contradicting yourself of committing a heresy.

So that's my position Steel and JWA. Have you anything thoughtful to say in reply?

89

Is Jesus Christ, Jehovah God? (Not the Father, but Equal to the Father)

by JW Answers in

jehovah's witnesses,is jesus christ, jehovah god?

(not the father, but equal to the father)what if the watchtower told you about god in a false way, and yet the bible taught you about god in his true character, how would you respond?could it be true, that the watchtower have been leading you up the garden path, describing god in a way that the bible does not describe?

please watch my latest video to help you to see how the bible describes the lord jesus christ, and also within my video, i explain from the new world translation how the bible which the jws use, also describes jesus as jehovah god.

cofty

it becomes pretty obvious who the authors think Jesus is - Steel

Paul, the author of Mark, the author of Mark, the authors of Matthew and Luke, and the author of the gospel of John all have different Christologies.

89

Is Jesus Christ, Jehovah God? (Not the Father, but Equal to the Father)

by JW Answers in

jehovah's witnesses,is jesus christ, jehovah god?

(not the father, but equal to the father)what if the watchtower told you about god in a false way, and yet the bible taught you about god in his true character, how would you respond?could it be true, that the watchtower have been leading you up the garden path, describing god in a way that the bible does not describe?

please watch my latest video to help you to see how the bible describes the lord jesus christ, and also within my video, i explain from the new world translation how the bible which the jws use, also describes jesus as jehovah god.

cofty

Let me add another couple of verses.

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ - John 20:17

The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name. - Revelation 3:12

"that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." - Romans 15:6,

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort." - 2 Corinthians 1:3,

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ." - Ephesians 1:3,

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." - 1 Peter 1:3

Also, please describe and illustrate the trinity succinctly in your own words without contradicting yourself or committing a heresy.

89

Is Jesus Christ, Jehovah God? (Not the Father, but Equal to the Father)

by JW Answers in

jehovah's witnesses,is jesus christ, jehovah god?

(not the father, but equal to the father)what if the watchtower told you about god in a false way, and yet the bible taught you about god in his true character, how would you respond?could it be true, that the watchtower have been leading you up the garden path, describing god in a way that the bible does not describe?

please watch my latest video to help you to see how the bible describes the lord jesus christ, and also within my video, i explain from the new world translation how the bible which the jws use, also describes jesus as jehovah god.

cofty

If Jesus is unequivocally God then why do bible writers speak about Jesus' God?

I didn't think you would need me to provide chapter and verse but maybe your bible knowledge isn't as good as you pretend. Here you go...

Romans 15:6, "that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

2 Corinthians 1:3, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort."

Ephesians 1:3, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ."

1 Peter 1:3, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."

Also, please describe and illustrate the trinity succinctly in your own words without contradicting yourself or committing a heresy.

Thank you for your time.

You're welcome. You are not running away are you?

9

The curious case of Oliver Cromwell's head

by LoveUniHateExams in

just been reading a bit about oliver cromwell on wiki, plus i watched a documentary on youtube.. cromwell fought against king charles the first and the royalists in the 17th century.

king charles lost the civil war and was beheaded in 1649. after this, england was without a monarch and cromwell became lord protector of the commonwealth.

cromwell died in 1658 and was embalmed and buried in westminster abbey.

cofty

Life under Cromwell was not much different from the Taliban.

89

Is Jesus Christ, Jehovah God? (Not the Father, but Equal to the Father)

by JW Answers in

jehovah's witnesses,is jesus christ, jehovah god?

(not the father, but equal to the father)what if the watchtower told you about god in a false way, and yet the bible taught you about god in his true character, how would you respond?could it be true, that the watchtower have been leading you up the garden path, describing god in a way that the bible does not describe?

please watch my latest video to help you to see how the bible describes the lord jesus christ, and also within my video, i explain from the new world translation how the bible which the jws use, also describes jesus as jehovah god.

cofty

I bet you will say something idiotic like... "Oh that verse should not be in the bible, it was put in by the Catholics..." Says who? It's God's word... stop listening to man.

Why would it be 'idiotic' to point out the simple fact that this verse, 'the Johannine Comma', is missing from the oldest and most reliable manuscripts?

Are you familiar with the ad hominem fallacy?

It's very telling that when somebody points out that the bible contains no clear statement of the Trinity you are forced to resort to a verse that is rejected by the vast majority of scholars. If the doctrine of the trinity is important why did Jesus not state it unequivocally and why did God not preserve this statement?

Please note that I am NOT saying that the bible does not contain many verses that support a view of Jesus as God. The problem is that is also contains many other verse that do the opposite.

You start from one position and then cherry-pick your 'evidence'. The Watchtower does the same from the other side. Both of you are ignoring the inconvenient fact that the bible does not present a coherent Christology.

48

Healing & Rebuilding Your Life - Feedback Wanted

by jp1692 in

i have been invited to speak at an international cultic studies association workshop this fall.

i could use your help in focusing on my presentation subject.. these workshops are for former members of any cult or other high-control, authoritarian group, not just jehovah's witnesses.

last year, i spoke at one of their larger conferences in europe.

cofty

Looks like a great outline JP. Please let us know how it goes.