cofty

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Posts by cofty

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  58

  Two witness rule: who cares?

  by _Morpheus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i find people railing against the so called “two witness rule” puzzling.

  i think its a complete and total non issue.

  for those that protest, argue or advocate for change in that rule, why?

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  cofty

  Heydog — It is not about a lack of training and honest mistakes in the past. It is about thousands of cases where victims were pressured not to report abuse so as to protect the organisation's reputation.

  The Royal Commission uncovered more than 6,000 examples — not one of them had been reported despite some Australian states having mandatory reporting laws.

  The organisation has paid out huge sums of money in recent years to compensate victims for its own neglect.

  Many western countries DO NOT have mandatory reporting laws. The UK has no mandatory reporting law for example. Some US states have no mandatory reporting laws. Only some Australian states have mandatory reporting laws.

  ‘Internationally, few countries appear to have mandatory reporting laws covering child abuse.’ - Report by NSPCC

  There is a good case to be made against mandatory reporting but it depends on organisations who work with children having a willingness to do things properly. The Watchtower have become the poster-child of how to do things badly.

  Please stop trying to excuse this problem as being just an example of improving attitudes in society in general. The watchtower have been outstanding in their ineptitude in this matter.

  Where mandatory reporting does not exist they have not improved one bit. The manufactured atmosphere of trust that exists in an organisation like the Watchtower, combined with an inordinate desire to protect its reputation results in a perfect environment for child abuse to prosper.
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  58

  Two witness rule: who cares?

  by _Morpheus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i find people railing against the so called “two witness rule” puzzling.

  i think its a complete and total non issue.

  for those that protest, argue or advocate for change in that rule, why?

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  cofty

  Heydog. The WT policy and procedures on child protection don't work in practice in far too many cases.

  The Australian Royal Commission proved that much beyond all doubt. It was beyond embarrassing. I'm afraid that, like many well-intenioned JWs, you have a naive perspective that confuses theory and practice. Literally thousands of victims — many of them abused by abusers who were known to be such by elders — can testify to the fact that it does not work. The organisation has paid out countless millions in compensation and hush money in recent years in a vain effort to cover over past failings.

  You lived in a state with mandatory reporting laws. In many states and many countries this is not the case. The first directive of WT policy is ‘don’t bring reproach on Jehovah’s name’. This has consistently trumped child-welfare.

  You looked for ways to get around the two-witness rule — well done. Frequently the organisation has used the rule as a way to protect its reputation.

  The Watchtower’s record in protecting children and in dealing with cases of abuse is no better than the Roman Catholic Church. In recent years the Vatican has been forced to take steps to acknowledge their past failings, apologise to victims and change their ways — The Watchtower remains defiant.

  If local elders are doing better now than past generations that is despite the leadership of the Governing Body.
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  58

  Two witness rule: who cares?

  by _Morpheus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i find people railing against the so called “two witness rule” puzzling.

  i think its a complete and total non issue.

  for those that protest, argue or advocate for change in that rule, why?

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  cofty

  Heydog - Thank you for your post. I don't agree with all of your comments but I appreciate you presenting the other side.

  there are many honest men serving as elders and ministerial servants who care about children and doing the right thing for them and are not interested in simply protecting their fellow elder or their own position

  I agree with this. The problem is that the current policies and procedures are woefully inadequate to deal with those who are malevolent.
  
  
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  42

  Hello Everyone, Another JW Has Left!

  by SuperGirl in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  just want to introduce myself and let you know that this site is working and is a big help to lots of jws with doubts.

  i've been lurking for about a year, the first couple of times i was frightened and literally shaking visiting an apostate site but it's the only place i can come to for sanity.

  the religion has become a nut house.

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  cofty

  Hi Supergirl welcome to the forum. Thank you for sharing your story.
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  58

  Two witness rule: who cares?

  by _Morpheus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i find people railing against the so called “two witness rule” puzzling.

  i think its a complete and total non issue.

  for those that protest, argue or advocate for change in that rule, why?

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  cofty

  Morph your response to my post was frivolous.

  As is often the case you have a simplistic perspective and no interest in considering other points of view.

  I have a lot I would like to say on this topic (I have dealt with child welfare for a large junior sports club for two decades) but there would be no point.

  In Morph's world Morph is right and everybody else is an idiot.

  Interestingly the UK's biggest child welfare charity the NSPCC is against mandatory reporting.
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  58

  Two witness rule: who cares?

  by _Morpheus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i find people railing against the so called “two witness rule” puzzling.

  i think its a complete and total non issue.

  for those that protest, argue or advocate for change in that rule, why?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  cofty

  The ‘two witness rule’ and the resistance to reporting credible allegations to the authorities go hand-in-hand.

  Currently the organisations starts from a position of protecting its reputation at all costs — don’t bring reproach on Jehovah’s name. When a victim reports abuse, the assumption is that without collaboration nothing can or should be done. There will be no further investigation by the elders and they definitely will not be taking it outside the organisation. The victim and/or victim’s parents will be left in no doubt that they are expected to ‘leave it in Jehovah’s hands’.

  What needs to change first is attitude. Correct procedure will follow from that.

  The reputation of the organisation needs to take second place to child welfare. If that was the case then there would be an eagerness to get to the truth of any report of abuse. That would involve reporting it to the authorities — or supporting the victim and/or parents to do so — and investigating the matter internally to the extent that can be done without prejudicing an official investigation.

  Two witness rule: who cares? - Morph

  I do and so should you.
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  37

  My sister passed away this evening

  by smiddy3 in

  1. social
  2. family

  it was only about two months ago she was diagnosed with lung cancer and she was a non smoker .. she was never a jw and she never held it against me that i was for 33 years.. we had a good relationship even though we lived in different states about 2000 miles apart,.. tears are rolling down my cheeks as i type this .

  r.i.p.

  sylvia .

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  cofty

  I'm really sorry to hear about your loss. My best wishes to you, Bill
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  21

  It would be nice if this forum went back to the basics

  by nowwhat? in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  not to offend or impose my opinion.

  but simply i would like to see just news and insights from the local congregation to the top organization level of: downsizing, closings, c.s.a.

  personal experiences,unscriptural doctrines of the org.and direct commentary of the above.

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  cofty

  Contrast and compare >>

  Not to ... impose my opinion. - nowwhat

  Dictating what others should or shouldn't reasonably be able to do here, sounds like a familiar trait - IM
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  14

  A Message For JWAnswers

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi jwa.

  i want to encourage you to engage in some genuine conversation.. i appreciate what you are trying to do.

  you clearly have a passion for your subject — you must have invested countless hours in your series of videos.

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  cofty

  Hi JWA. I want to encourage you to engage in some genuine conversation.

  I appreciate what you are trying to do. You clearly have a passion for your subject — you must have invested countless hours in your series of videos. You are convinced that JWs are spiritually deluded and that you want to explain why they are wrong and, if possible, show them how to be saved.

  It seems to have escaped your notice that the vast majority of forum members are ex-JWs who are already convinced that the cult teaches palpable nonsense. You are pushing on an open door. Many of us are also interested in helping JWs to see their errors and between us we have a vast amount of knowledge and experience.

  Perhaps if you were to engage in a dialogue we could help you become more effective.

  Many of us no longer believe in faith as a foundation for determining what is true. I think that makes you nervous. Please don't be put off. Respectful debate is a valuable thing that benefits both interlocutors and those who observe the conversation.

  Why not tell us a little bit about yourself and your ministry. What got you interested in the Watchtower? Remember this is a discussion forum not a blog. You have something to contribute. Best wishes from a fellow Scot.
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  12

  The Purity of God's word

  by JW Answers in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  god says otherwise.

  therefore who will you trust... the word of god or satan?

  satan uses many people today to corrupt the things of god, as well as god's word.

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  cofty

  Therefore who will you trust... The Word of God or Satan?

  The bible is not a coherent book. It is a library of books of varied quality. It contains numerous errors and reflects the superstitions and scientific ignorance of its many authors.

  It promotes an ethical position that would shame the most debased totalitarian regimes of recent decades. It endorses slavery, misogyny, kidnap, rape, genocide and infanticide.

  One the biggest issues with the bible is that the extant documents contain more differences than there are verses. Many of the resulting contradictions are significant and cannot be reconciled without indulging in dishonest mental gymnastics.

  It is impossible for an objective reader to conclude that it is of supernatural origin.

  By the way Satan does not appear in the bible until after the Babylonian exile. He originates with the Zoroastrian religion of Persia. Pre-exile Jews had no problem attributing good and evil to Yahweh.