cofty

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Posts by cofty

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  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

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  cofty

  Did you read the article at the link I posted where Bart Ehrman deals with the question of Nazareth? Even if the claim about Nazareth was true it wouldn't matter. It would just be another historical error regarding the Jesus of history.

  We know that there was a community of followers of a dead teacher from an early period. They had oral traditions about him long before these were written down. The gospels were also based on earlier written sources.

  There is clearly an evolution of Christology within the gospels. Mark doesn't even mention the birth narratives and leaves his audience hanging regarding the resurrection.

  Nobody can be certain about which historical details are based on fact and which are exaggeration and which are pure fiction, but exactly the same can be said about almost every character of history.
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  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  cofty

  That is a very convoluted post.

  Are you saying that there probably was a Jewish Rabbi who gathered a following who later wrote down stories about him, but we can never be certain which details are historically true?

  PS - Don't click the post button twice. If your patient it will load.
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  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  cofty

  Not so much.

  What basis do you have for asserting that the Jesus of history 'bears no resemblance to Jesus in any way'?

  All knowledge about Jesus comes from writings that originate years after his supposed death. So whether it's likely or not, his existence remains a hypothesis and must be treated as unknown till proven true.

  The same can be said about many historical characters. If you are making the extraordinary claim that Jesus of the gospels was invented out of whole cloth then you have the burden of proof.

  As for Nazareth the claim that it did not exist as an active town in Jesus' day is unsupported by the facts.

  There are just too many convoluted stories in the gospels that make no sense if the writers had total freedom to invent a mythical character. Luke's contortions about the birth of Jesus is a classic example.
  
  
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  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  the final nail in the coffin was the discovery that Nazereth didn't even exist in the 1st century

  Actually the case for that assertion is very weak...
  
  
• 
  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  I think there is a serious case to be made but having read and listened to a different versions of the 'mythical Jesus' theories I am unconvinced.

  I think the deification of a real historical Jewish Rabbi is the more compelling explanation. There are some real problems with the idea that he was invented out of whole cloth.
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  34

  New to this site.

  by KimD in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is my first post.

  i feel intimidated because i don't really know computers to well and i hope that i don't break any rules.

  i became a jw in 1981. i left in 91. i have so many questions.

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  cofty

  Welcome to the forum Kim.
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  12

  Good strategy?

  by Olig in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so obviously the best way to leave properly is fading, that's a given i would have thought?.

  however i'm in a situation where i'm not sure what to do... i've just left home, nobody bar my parents / gparents know my address.

  at my parents request they asked if i would switch my cards over to the closer kingdom hall.

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  cofty

  Don't go. If an elder takes an interest in looking out for you they have power over you again. You are currently in the perfect position. Do nothing. Think up a good excuse in case your mum starts asking questions. Good luck.
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  340

  Calling Cofty and others regarding evolution

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i have started down the path of trying to understand evolution, and to get the linear lies that the jws planted in my head out of it.

  i bought an audiobook called "evolution: what the fossils say and why it matters" by donald prothero.

  i heard it recommended on an atheist podcast that i listened to.

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  cofty

  I didn't ask for a definition of consciousness, I said that on previous occasions you have declined to define 'awareness'. Still waiting.

  Rocks are 'aware'? And you can say that with a straight face?

  How does methodological naturalism offer evidence against the idea that awareness is fundamental to matter?

  It can't because it is 'not even wrong'. The burden of proof is all yours. 'That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.' - Christopher Hitchens

  Methodological naturalism works.
  
  
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  340

  Calling Cofty and others regarding evolution

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i have started down the path of trying to understand evolution, and to get the linear lies that the jws planted in my head out of it.

  i bought an audiobook called "evolution: what the fossils say and why it matters" by donald prothero.

  i heard it recommended on an atheist podcast that i listened to.

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  cofty

  You cry foul when I say that panpsychism claims that rocks are conscious but you then assert that rocks have 'awareness'.

  From past experience you refuse to define 'awareness'.

  This is how you play tennis without a net.

  there is also little or no empirical evidence that can be offered for the common materialist conception of the world either.

  Apart from absolutely everything that has been discovered since the Enlightenment.

  Methodological naturalism works. Consistently. With astonishing results.
  
  
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  340

  Calling Cofty and others regarding evolution

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i have started down the path of trying to understand evolution, and to get the linear lies that the jws planted in my head out of it.

  i bought an audiobook called "evolution: what the fossils say and why it matters" by donald prothero.

  i heard it recommended on an atheist podcast that i listened to.

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  2. 
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  cofty

  Finding 1,000 doctors and engineers who are willing to resort to the 'god-of-the-gaps' is unremarkable. I'm surprised the Discovery Institute hasn't been able to find 10,000.