cofty

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Posts by cofty

• 
  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

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  cofty

  Not so much a question of his historicity but rather a question of the importance of his historicity.

  Well that's a totally different subject.

  You should read the case for the historicity of Jesus by Bart Ehrman.
  
  
• 
  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  It is a red herring.

  People have made extraordinary claims about all sorts of historical characters. We can dismiss those claims without asserting that the individuals did not exist.
• 
  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  But you started off by claiming that the Jesus of the gospels is not based on a Jesus of history.

  The fact that his followers came to believe he was son of god says nothing about his historicity.
• 
  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Many of Jesus's sayings are rendered hollow if he didn't exist

  How so?
  
  
• 
  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Exactly, we agree, a teacher. Just a nameless guy of some description,

  Why not an actual man called Jesus?

  was he born in Bethlehem?

  No of course not. That was invented to connect him to an OT prophecy. Matthew and Luke use very different stories to achieve that.

  Did he claim to be the messiah and have 12 apostles?

  I think he did make claims of that sort. Otherwise an account that was entirely fictional would not include failed claims.

  Jesus's existence is crucial to the narrative, Socrates's existence isn't

  Why? Are the words attributed to Socrates any less interesting if they were written by somebody else and put in the mouth of a mythical Greek philosopher?
  
  
• 
  191

  Diversity is White Genocide

  by corrie54 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  asia for the asians, africa for the africans, white countries for everybody!.

  everybody says there is this race problem.

  everybody says this race problem will be solved when the third world pours into every white country and only into white countries.. the netherlands and belgium are just as crowded as japan or taiwan, but nobody says japan or taiwan will solve this race problem by bringing in millions of third worlders and quote assimilating unquote with them.. everybody says the final solution to this race problem is for every white country and only white countries to “assimilate,” i.e., intermarry, with all those non-whites.. what if i said there was this race problem and this race problem would be solved only if hundreds of millions of non-blacks were brought into every black country and only into black countries?.

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  cofty

  Spoletta there really is reason to be concerned about the scale of immigration in parts of Europe.
• 
  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Did you read the article at the link I posted where Bart Ehrman deals with the question of Nazareth? Even if the claim about Nazareth was true it wouldn't matter. It would just be another historical error regarding the Jesus of history.

  We know that there was a community of followers of a dead teacher from an early period. They had oral traditions about him long before these were written down. The gospels were also based on earlier written sources.

  There is clearly an evolution of Christology within the gospels. Mark doesn't even mention the birth narratives and leaves his audience hanging regarding the resurrection.

  Nobody can be certain about which historical details are based on fact and which are exaggeration and which are pure fiction, but exactly the same can be said about almost every character of history.
• 
  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  That is a very convoluted post.

  Are you saying that there probably was a Jewish Rabbi who gathered a following who later wrote down stories about him, but we can never be certain which details are historically true?

  PS - Don't click the post button twice. If your patient it will load.
• 
  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Not so much.

  What basis do you have for asserting that the Jesus of history 'bears no resemblance to Jesus in any way'?

  All knowledge about Jesus comes from writings that originate years after his supposed death. So whether it's likely or not, his existence remains a hypothesis and must be treated as unknown till proven true.

  The same can be said about many historical characters. If you are making the extraordinary claim that Jesus of the gospels was invented out of whole cloth then you have the burden of proof.

  As for Nazareth the claim that it did not exist as an active town in Jesus' day is unsupported by the facts.

  There are just too many convoluted stories in the gospels that make no sense if the writers had total freedom to invent a mythical character. Luke's contortions about the birth of Jesus is a classic example.
  
  
• 
  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  the final nail in the coffin was the discovery that Nazereth didn't even exist in the 1st century

  Actually the case for that assertion is very weak...