does palestine actually exist?
does israel have the right to exist!.
Jews were unique among all ethnic groups in the world in 1948.
In country after country for centuries they have been singled out as 'the other' and persecuted. The Holocaust was just the latest of countless examples. The UN made a humanitarian decision that they should be given the right to move to the British Mandate in Palestine.
The problems have originated with the homicidal hatred they encountered from their new neighbours. The best place in the Middle East to be an Arab is inside Israel.
does palestine actually exist?
does israel have the right to exist!.
It's a particular problem in the UK among supporters of the Left wing opposition party led by Jeremy Corbyn. Dave Rich has written an excellent book on the topic - 'The Left's Jewish Problem'.
The left have were traditionally supporters of Israel. Then they began to define themselves in terms of support for the 'oppressed minority'. Israel began to be equated with the Apartheid movement in South Africa and Palestine became the cause celebre of western socialism.
They hide behind the lie that they only oppose Zionism and not Jews but when you dig into the journals and books intended for socialist audiences it is obvious that anti-zionism is nothing but a veil for Jew-hatred.
Incidentally I have never spoken with a conspiracy theorist who was not also an anti-semite.
does palestine actually exist?
does israel have the right to exist!.
Yes of course Israel has a right to exist.
The case for a homeland for the Jewish diaspora was already strong before the Holocaust. Opposition to Israel by Islamic nations was met by astonishing success by Israel in 1948 and '67.
Israel's reaction to ongoing threats from its neighbours has at times been excessive and cruel resulting in terrible suffering that results in more hatred, more attacks and even more harsh reactions and so on....
Here is an interesting thought experiment though. If Hamas and Hezbollah unilaterally ceased all hostilities and put all its weapons beyond use tomorrow there would be peace and increasing prosperity all round. If Israel did the same it would be wiped off the map and once again become a victim of genocide.
alex - thank you for your offer to have a conversation about evolution.. i accept the scientific evidence that all life - including humans - evolved from a common ancestor through unguided evolution over millions of years.
this isn't even a controversial position in the scientific community.. the evidence rests on the data from many interconnected fields including paleontology, comparative anatomy, geology and especially genetics.
it is no exaggeration to say that the evidence for your own non-human ancestry is contained in every cell in your body.. it is my experience that jws are generally quite ignorant (not in a pejorative sense) of the scientific case.
No problem Pete, your comments have been spot-on.
My objection is to the way SBF constantly hijacks threads with 'consciousness therefore god'. Apparently rocks are conscious (or is it aware - he won't tell me the difference)
alex - thank you for your offer to have a conversation about evolution.. i accept the scientific evidence that all life - including humans - evolved from a common ancestor through unguided evolution over millions of years.
this isn't even a controversial position in the scientific community.. the evidence rests on the data from many interconnected fields including paleontology, comparative anatomy, geology and especially genetics.
it is no exaggeration to say that the evidence for your own non-human ancestry is contained in every cell in your body.. it is my experience that jws are generally quite ignorant (not in a pejorative sense) of the scientific case.
Any chance of respecting the topic SBF?
Every time I say 'science' you say 'consciousness therefore god'.
alex - thank you for your offer to have a conversation about evolution.. i accept the scientific evidence that all life - including humans - evolved from a common ancestor through unguided evolution over millions of years.
this isn't even a controversial position in the scientific community.. the evidence rests on the data from many interconnected fields including paleontology, comparative anatomy, geology and especially genetics.
it is no exaggeration to say that the evidence for your own non-human ancestry is contained in every cell in your body.. it is my experience that jws are generally quite ignorant (not in a pejorative sense) of the scientific case.
alex - thank you for your offer to have a conversation about evolution.. i accept the scientific evidence that all life - including humans - evolved from a common ancestor through unguided evolution over millions of years.
this isn't even a controversial position in the scientific community.. the evidence rests on the data from many interconnected fields including paleontology, comparative anatomy, geology and especially genetics.
it is no exaggeration to say that the evidence for your own non-human ancestry is contained in every cell in your body.. it is my experience that jws are generally quite ignorant (not in a pejorative sense) of the scientific case.
Evolution has no use for 'guidance' which amounts to nothing less unscientific than creationism. It is unfalsifiable and therefore unscientific by definition.
Could you provide a quote regarding Simon Conway Morris' thoughts on the topic please?
alex - thank you for your offer to have a conversation about evolution.. i accept the scientific evidence that all life - including humans - evolved from a common ancestor through unguided evolution over millions of years.
this isn't even a controversial position in the scientific community.. the evidence rests on the data from many interconnected fields including paleontology, comparative anatomy, geology and especially genetics.
it is no exaggeration to say that the evidence for your own non-human ancestry is contained in every cell in your body.. it is my experience that jws are generally quite ignorant (not in a pejorative sense) of the scientific case.
Thank you Lee.
It looks like my interlocutor has left the building?
Conflating abiogenesis and evolution is not just a JW practice, it's a tactic favoured by creationists everywhere. Evolution is beyond reasonable doubt; abiogenesis is still a subject of many hypotheses. Once abiogenesis is settled all creationists will want to talk about is the origin of the universe.
Alex if you are still here can we resume our conversation? I would like to talk to you about some specific evidence for evolution and to find out what you already understand about the subject.
alex - thank you for your offer to have a conversation about evolution.. i accept the scientific evidence that all life - including humans - evolved from a common ancestor through unguided evolution over millions of years.
this isn't even a controversial position in the scientific community.. the evidence rests on the data from many interconnected fields including paleontology, comparative anatomy, geology and especially genetics.
it is no exaggeration to say that the evidence for your own non-human ancestry is contained in every cell in your body.. it is my experience that jws are generally quite ignorant (not in a pejorative sense) of the scientific case.
Thank you Doug will do.
alex - thank you for your offer to have a conversation about evolution.. i accept the scientific evidence that all life - including humans - evolved from a common ancestor through unguided evolution over millions of years.
this isn't even a controversial position in the scientific community.. the evidence rests on the data from many interconnected fields including paleontology, comparative anatomy, geology and especially genetics.
it is no exaggeration to say that the evidence for your own non-human ancestry is contained in every cell in your body.. it is my experience that jws are generally quite ignorant (not in a pejorative sense) of the scientific case.
Thank you for the context of Shapiro's quote Doug, that is a fascinating article.
Nick Lane describes a 'metabolism first' scenario in The Vital Question.
If you have any other examples of misleading references in Origins of Life I would love to see them too.
