Posts by cofty

81

Evolution or Creation Poll

by Vanderhoven7 in

evolution is how we got here.. demonstrate that you believe that all species evolved from a single cell over/within 3.5 billion years by tapping "like" below.. demonstrate that you believe in special creation by tapping "unlike" below..

cofty

The significance of epigenetics is often massively overstated in popular science. I have a book here by Nessa Carey called The Epigenetic Revolution. It's interesting but I suspect it is also much exaggerated. The ridiculous headline and strapline in the Guardian is a classic example of bad science journalism.

Environment may have a passing effect on the expression of genes but the basic code is still the same. The physical folding of the DNA molecule actually affects the translation of genes.

Regardless of the long-term conclusion on the significance of epigenetics it has no bearing on the fundamental fact of common ancestry.

I think this is the third or fourth time I have made the same point. All extant species - and the 99.9% that have gone extinct - evolved from a common ancestor. That will still be true in 10,000 years time whatever details of the process have to be reconsidered.

81

Evolution or Creation Poll

by Vanderhoven7 in

evolution is how we got here.. demonstrate that you believe that all species evolved from a single cell over/within 3.5 billion years by tapping "like" below.. demonstrate that you believe in special creation by tapping "unlike" below..

cofty

Without Evolution what are atheists left with to “explain” biological design, and complexity? - Hooby

Why is explain in scare quotes Hooby?

Let me clarify for you - It is not necessary for a theist to reject the fact of evolution. Millions of christians simply accept that biological evolution is as well established as the shape of planet earth. The earth is not flat; evolution is a fact. These two statements are equal in veracity.

Evolution is a necessary but not a sufficient idea for atheism.

Evolution-denial is not a necessary position to be a bible-believing christian.

34

What’s Your Favorite Breakfast??

by minimus in

jw
friends

to me, breakfast can be served at any time of the day.

a local bar in my area serves breakfast all day long.

for 5 bucks you get 2 eggs any way you like, bacon sausage or ham with home fries and toast!!

cofty

Two poached eggs on toast

81

Evolution or Creation Poll

by Vanderhoven7 in

evolution is how we got here.. demonstrate that you believe that all species evolved from a single cell over/within 3.5 billion years by tapping "like" below.. demonstrate that you believe in special creation by tapping "unlike" below..

cofty

Evolution is NOT atheism.

The vast majority of christians accept the fact of evolution and manage to reconcile it with their faith. Many scientists who work in biology, genetics and paleontology are christians.

We have sixteen people on this forum who are bad theologians.

81

Evolution or Creation Poll

by Vanderhoven7 in

evolution is how we got here.. demonstrate that you believe that all species evolved from a single cell over/within 3.5 billion years by tapping "like" below.. demonstrate that you believe in special creation by tapping "unlike" below..

cofty

I do not accept that a theist can honestly and objectively reject the basic fact of common ancestry.

That's like saying a JW can study all the facts and honestly and objectively believe that Jerusalem fell in 607 BC.

However much they protest you just know they are deluding themself about their motives.

81

Evolution or Creation Poll

by Vanderhoven7 in

evolution is how we got here.. demonstrate that you believe that all species evolved from a single cell over/within 3.5 billion years by tapping "like" below.. demonstrate that you believe in special creation by tapping "unlike" below..

cofty

There are many who have made an honest, objective study of the facts and have come to conclusions different to yours

Who has studied the scientific evidence for evolution - NOT from critical sources - and concluded that evolution is false who is not a theist?

I will be very surprised if you know of such a person.

81

Evolution or Creation Poll

by Vanderhoven7 in

evolution is how we got here.. demonstrate that you believe that all species evolved from a single cell over/within 3.5 billion years by tapping "like" below.. demonstrate that you believe in special creation by tapping "unlike" below..

cofty

Hooby - The material for my series Evolution is a Fact came from a large number of sources. Mostly from books on my bookshelf. I did use TalkOrigins among other sources for some of the early threads on DNA. It is a very good website and also exists as a series of podcasts. The ERV diagram came from google images.

On a number of occasions I have listed many of these sources including books and websites when posters have asked for further research.

Have you checked out your dishonest use of sources on the ERV thread yet?

81

Evolution or Creation Poll

by Vanderhoven7 in

evolution is how we got here.. demonstrate that you believe that all species evolved from a single cell over/within 3.5 billion years by tapping "like" below.. demonstrate that you believe in special creation by tapping "unlike" below..

cofty

some non-believers like Thomas Nagel and Raymond Tallis say we need step back and question some key assumptions - SBF

That is equivocation. Nobody is asserting that any particular detail regarding evolution is unassailable.

The fundamental fact that every species evolved from a common ancestor is only rejected by religiously motivated ideologues.

81

Evolution or Creation Poll

by Vanderhoven7 in

evolution is how we got here.. demonstrate that you believe that all species evolved from a single cell over/within 3.5 billion years by tapping "like" below.. demonstrate that you believe in special creation by tapping "unlike" below..

cofty

How many books I've read is not the topic. Neither is how many books you have read against evolution. This line of questioning reminds me of the JWs who ask where I get my information about them. I tell them that the information I get can come from the devil himself if it is true. - Vander

Actually it is absolutely the topic.

Truth is not a popularity contest. It's interesting that 16 forum members reject evolution but until they have done the work of studying the science their opinions have no bearing on what it actually true. They are nothing but expressions of religious dogma.

And no it's nothing like a JW asking you where you got your information from at all. Imagine you go up to a JW and tell them that you 'know' all sorts of outlandish things about the organisation's beliefs. He asks you where you got these ideas from and you tell him you heard it on the internet. He asks if you have ever read any WT books, browsed the official website or even had a conversation with a JW. You admit that you have not but you trust the internet. THAT is what is like.

And just for the record, I have read many, many creationist books and articles. I doubt there is a creationist argument I haven't heard. I know both sides of the debate. You admit to holding an unassailable belief despite knowing only your own side.

Let me show you how to get back to the topic. What I have done thus far on this thread is to report on the poll results, state that I do not believe in microbe to man evolution and posted videos with findings that need to be critiqued.

No your videos don't 'need' to be critiqued. If they contain any interesting arguments why not present those in your own words and I will happily discuss them with you. I could post a thousand videos and so could you. It will get us nowhere.

Evolution is a Fact...

81

Evolution or Creation Poll

by Vanderhoven7 in

evolution is how we got here.. demonstrate that you believe that all species evolved from a single cell over/within 3.5 billion years by tapping "like" below.. demonstrate that you believe in special creation by tapping "unlike" below..

cofty

The same could be said of those who maintain all species evolved from a single cell and would be just as true.- Earnest

I don't agree Earnest. We were all die-hard creationists once. I was proud of my ability to 'destroy' evolutionists. I knew everything that could be known about creationists arguments.

I would have asserted that I knew about evolution but that was dishonest. My only source of information about evolution was from writers who were rejected evolution. When I actually studied the subject from science books - literally dozens of books over many years - I discovered how ignorant &/or dishonest creationist authors are.

It is not easy to admit one of your foundational beliefs are wrong. The default position is to ignore actual scientific sources and cherry-pick creationist websites and YouTube videos that reinforce your ignorance. And of course they have not a clue how facile the arguments are that so impress them because they don't know the science - through choice.

So no, there is no comparison in intellectual rigour and honesty between creationists who reject evolution, despite admitting never having read a single science book in their entire lives, and exJWs who have done the work and follow the evidence.

One is motivated by fear and dogma, the other by curiosity and a love of learning.

I have posted 40 threads of evidence for evolution, every one of them entirely in my own words based on countless hours of research and backed up by peer-reviewed papers. Creationists ignore them, post copy-paste and YouTube videos and pretend they are engaging in honest debate.

Debating a creationist is like accepting a challenge against a bull in a china shop. He gets ten minutes to rampage and then you get ten minutes to put it all back together again.