the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
truth - Why do you claim that subjective experiences don't exist? If somebody murdered your family is your pain not real?
Please don't use Richard Rorty as a spokesman for rational atheists. He is an anti-realist postmodern philosopher who eschews reason and rationality.
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
1 - Natural evil was the topic of the longest thread ever on this forum.
The OP is here ...
A summary of the topic is here...
and of the main arguments here ...
2 - A god who is imminent in the way you describe is incompatible with the God who is love described by Jesus.
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
Children die of starvation and so it is absurd to believe God hears prayers - Joen
Christians have plenty of facile answers to challenges of this sort.
On the other hand natural evil proves beyond all doubt that the god of christian theism does not exist.
God chooses, appoints, elects. Creation run its course and God intervenes. We are products.
A particularly pernicious version of theism that is internally contradictory.
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
Pete Zahut - No JW thinks of Jesus' agony as physical punishment suffered vicariously for what they deserve for the things they do wrong every day.
Ask a JW why Jesus died and they will pontificate about Adam.
The difference between a christian understanding of soteriology and the Watchtower doctrine is chalk and cheese.
ETA - For the sake of conversation I am parking the issue of whether any of this actually happened. That is a different topic.
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
Sea Breeze - is there free will in heaven? Is there evil in heaven?
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
Joen - I hoped you would understand I meant something like, what do you mean when you wrote 'For the atheist, the biggest problem is the existence of evil'?
Did you mean that evil is the strongest reason for disbelief or that 'evil' is a difficult thing for atheists to account for?
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
To me, the sacrifice of God the Father as man, the Son of God, means that God participates in our creative suffering in a most mysterious and precious way
I really want to explain why that is wrong
For the conservative Christian, "theologically rightminded protestant or catholic", the greatest problem of evil is the innocent sacrifice of Jesus, not starving babies born with inherint sin.
and also why that is wrong.
But let's start with the first point,
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
For the atheist, the biggest problem is the existence of evil - Joen
Go on then I'll bite...
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
The biggest error the Watchtower make in this topic is to identify Jesus' death with the sin of Adam.
According to any Christian Jesus died for their sins. According to any JW Jesus died for Adam's sin.
Russell taught vicarious sacrifice and defended it against Nelson Barbour's attack on the doctrine. It was over this point that they split up.
Rutherford turned it into a legalistic transaction and now no JW would think in terms of Jesus' death as a vicarious punishment for their own personal sins.
hey everyone, just joined this.
anyone here from cathcart congregation or any others in glasgow?
left there 3 years ago when i was 17. .
Hello R1001 welcome to the forum.
So how were things in Cathcart before you left? I knew a few from there back in the 80s. The Greenlees family were well known. They had a chain of shoe shops and a relative on the Governing Body who became notorious as a sexual predator. If I remember rightly my pioneer school was in Cathcart.
I used to go to Langside College near that side of Glasgow. I grew up in Coatbridge congregation.
