Posts by cofty

posted

42
Providing salvation is not that important
by pixel in
1. watchtower
2. bible
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.

i find this so antichristian.

i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
cofty

nowwhat - What is the first line of the Lord's prayer?
42
Providing salvation is not that important
by pixel in
1. watchtower
2. bible
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.

i find this so antichristian.

i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
cofty

truth - Why do you claim that subjective experiences don't exist? If somebody murdered your family is your pain not real?
Please don't use Richard Rorty as a spokesman for rational atheists. He is an anti-realist postmodern philosopher who eschews reason and rationality.
42
Providing salvation is not that important
by pixel in
1. watchtower
2. bible
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.

i find this so antichristian.

i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
cofty

1 - Natural evil was the topic of the longest thread ever on this forum.
The OP is here ...
A summary of the topic is here...
and of the main arguments here ...
2 - A god who is imminent in the way you describe is incompatible with the God who is love described by Jesus.
42
Providing salvation is not that important
by pixel in
1. watchtower
2. bible
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.

i find this so antichristian.

i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
cofty

Children die of starvation and so it is absurd to believe God hears prayers - Joen
Christians have plenty of facile answers to challenges of this sort.
On the other hand natural evil proves beyond all doubt that the god of christian theism does not exist.
God chooses, appoints, elects. Creation run its course and God intervenes. We are products.
A particularly pernicious version of theism that is internally contradictory.
42
Providing salvation is not that important
by pixel in
1. watchtower
2. bible
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.

i find this so antichristian.

i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
cofty

Pete Zahut - No JW thinks of Jesus' agony as physical punishment suffered vicariously for what they deserve for the things they do wrong every day.
Ask a JW why Jesus died and they will pontificate about Adam.
The difference between a christian understanding of soteriology and the Watchtower doctrine is chalk and cheese.
ETA - For the sake of conversation I am parking the issue of whether any of this actually happened. That is a different topic.
42
Providing salvation is not that important
by pixel in
1. watchtower
2. bible
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.

i find this so antichristian.

i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
cofty

Sea Breeze - is there free will in heaven? Is there evil in heaven?
42
Providing salvation is not that important
by pixel in
1. watchtower
2. bible
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.

i find this so antichristian.

i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
cofty

Joen - I hoped you would understand I meant something like, what do you mean when you wrote 'For the atheist, the biggest problem is the existence of evil'?
Did you mean that evil is the strongest reason for disbelief or that 'evil' is a difficult thing for atheists to account for?
42
Providing salvation is not that important
by pixel in
1. watchtower
2. bible
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.

i find this so antichristian.

i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
cofty

To me, the sacrifice of God the Father as man, the Son of God, means that God participates in our creative suffering in a most mysterious and precious way
I really want to explain why that is wrong
For the conservative Christian, "theologically rightminded protestant or catholic", the greatest problem of evil is the innocent sacrifice of Jesus, not starving babies born with inherint sin.
and also why that is wrong.
But let's start with the first point,
42
Providing salvation is not that important
by pixel in
1. watchtower
2. bible
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.

i find this so antichristian.

i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
cofty

For the atheist, the biggest problem is the existence of evil - Joen
Go on then I'll bite...
42
Providing salvation is not that important
by pixel in
1. watchtower
2. bible
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.

i find this so antichristian.

i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
cofty

The biggest error the Watchtower make in this topic is to identify Jesus' death with the sin of Adam.
According to any Christian Jesus died for their sins. According to any JW Jesus died for Adam's sin.
Russell taught vicarious sacrifice and defended it against Nelson Barbour's attack on the doctrine. It was over this point that they split up.
Rutherford turned it into a legalistic transaction and now no JW would think in terms of Jesus' death as a vicarious punishment for their own personal sins.