the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
Joen - Congratulations! We debated this topic over a period of a couple of years and there were more than 2,500 contributions from dozens of theists. In all that time nobody managed to come up with a response as ridiculous as 'natural evil draw men closer to God'.
I think you might be a troll.
The juxtaposition of that expression of total moral vacuity with a smiley face is really jarring.
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
nowwhat - What is the first line of the Lord's prayer?
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
truth - Why do you claim that subjective experiences don't exist? If somebody murdered your family is your pain not real?
Please don't use Richard Rorty as a spokesman for rational atheists. He is an anti-realist postmodern philosopher who eschews reason and rationality.
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
1 - Natural evil was the topic of the longest thread ever on this forum.
The OP is here ...
A summary of the topic is here...
and of the main arguments here ...
2 - A god who is imminent in the way you describe is incompatible with the God who is love described by Jesus.
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
Children die of starvation and so it is absurd to believe God hears prayers - Joen
Christians have plenty of facile answers to challenges of this sort.
On the other hand natural evil proves beyond all doubt that the god of christian theism does not exist.
God chooses, appoints, elects. Creation run its course and God intervenes. We are products.
A particularly pernicious version of theism that is internally contradictory.
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
Pete Zahut - No JW thinks of Jesus' agony as physical punishment suffered vicariously for what they deserve for the things they do wrong every day.
Ask a JW why Jesus died and they will pontificate about Adam.
The difference between a christian understanding of soteriology and the Watchtower doctrine is chalk and cheese.
ETA - For the sake of conversation I am parking the issue of whether any of this actually happened. That is a different topic.
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
Sea Breeze - is there free will in heaven? Is there evil in heaven?
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
Joen - I hoped you would understand I meant something like, what do you mean when you wrote 'For the atheist, the biggest problem is the existence of evil'?
Did you mean that evil is the strongest reason for disbelief or that 'evil' is a difficult thing for atheists to account for?
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
To me, the sacrifice of God the Father as man, the Son of God, means that God participates in our creative suffering in a most mysterious and precious way
I really want to explain why that is wrong
For the conservative Christian, "theologically rightminded protestant or catholic", the greatest problem of evil is the innocent sacrifice of Jesus, not starving babies born with inherint sin.
and also why that is wrong.
But let's start with the first point,
the washtowel has a crazy obsession with diminishing the important of jesus' sacrifice for humankind.
i find this so antichristian.
i mean, how can you ignore scriptures like john 3:16?.
For the atheist, the biggest problem is the existence of evil - Joen
Go on then I'll bite...
