pirata

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Posts by pirata

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  10

  Shunning advocated and taught in 1893 Watchtower. Disfellowship and shun apostates.

  by Aussie Oz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am actually a bit shocked!

  i mean, i understood that up to 1953 the watchtower was against disfellowshipping and shunning, castigating the catholic church for the practice in the 1947 awake!

  no mixed message here as russell proclaims the righteousness and neccessity of shunning.

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  pirata

  To whom, then, did Russell refer to in this article as "apostate"?
• 
  2

  Signing of blood cards

  by bamse in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we used to get a sign from two other people on our blood card annualy.

  since about 2005 it was no such reminding og signing in january, i think.

  i live in norway.

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  pirata

  In my area, there has not been a yearly signing for many years. The last time there was a mass signing was when our medical directive cards changed to make our "personal decision" on blood fractions more clear.
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  23

  "Rutherford, a prominent member of the Governing Body" (David Splane, 2010 DC)

  by pirata in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in david splane's talk, "remain in the secret place of the most high", at the 2010 district convention he referred to "rutherford, a prominent member of the governing body".. while technically correct (the governing body is a technical term for a board of directors), the term "governing body" currently has a spiritual meaning, seperate from "board of directors", in the eyes of jws: the representatives of the faithful and discreet slave who make the decisions on spiritual matters.

  my understanding is that the "board of directors" handle other business/legal operations (since the 80s re-org).. please correct my if i am wrong, but retroactively applying the modern-day understanding of the term "governing body" to the board of directors in the rutherford/knorr era suggests that the board of directors had equal input on spiritual matters.

  my understanding though is that the president/vice-president made the majority of decisions on spiritual matters during that time.. does anyone know of any quotes or references from watchtower material that states who actually made the spiritual decisions during the rutherford/knorr era?.

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  pirata

  In David Splane's talk, "Remain in the Secret Place of the Most High", at the 2010 District Convention he referred to "Rutherford, a prominent member of the Governing Body".

  While technically correct (the governing body is a technical term for a board of directors), the term "governing body" currently has a spiritual meaning, seperate from "board of directors", in the eyes of JWs: the representatives of the faithful and discreet slave who make the decisions on spiritual matters. My understanding is that the "board of directors" handle other business/legal operations (since the 80s re-org).

  Please correct my if I am wrong, but retroactively applying the modern-day understanding of the term "governing body" to the board of directors in the Rutherford/Knorr era suggests that the board of directors had equal input on spiritual matters. My understanding though is that the President/Vice-president made the majority of decisions on spiritual matters during that time.

  Does anyone know of any quotes or references from Watchtower material that states who actually made the spiritual decisions during the Rutherford/Knorr era?
• 
  10

  Shunning advocated and taught in 1893 Watchtower. Disfellowship and shun apostates.

  by Aussie Oz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am actually a bit shocked!

  i mean, i understood that up to 1953 the watchtower was against disfellowshipping and shunning, castigating the catholic church for the practice in the 1947 awake!

  no mixed message here as russell proclaims the righteousness and neccessity of shunning.

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  pirata

  Wow. Great Find. I had always assumed that the shunning stance was a product of the Rutherford/Knorr era. I didn't realize it started so early on. It is ironic that Russell got his start by rejecting the established "truths" of the churches, privately studying the scriptures in small groups, shared the 'truths' he discovered, and then encouraged shunning of those who do not accept his established truths.
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  128

  "High-Control Groups"

  by Consfearacy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/similar-religions-to-jehovahs-witnesses.php .

  "it is important to understand that in most bible-based cults, although the member is aggressively taught doctrine, it is not the doctrine that holds him in the group.

  it is the sense that the group is god's true people, a feeling cultivated by techniques of mind control.

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  pirata

  "Using the Bible and secular resources the early Bible students pinpointed the end of the gentile times in 1914."

  1) It was Chuck Russel, not the students. It was never the students, only Chuck.

  Nelson Barbour, published in the September 1875 Herald of the morning that 1914 would end the gentile times. Russell read his first issue of Herald of the Morning December 1875 or January 1876. Barbour however, would go on to change his mind about the date while Russell stuck to it.
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  9

  What Are the Odds of YOU Reading This Today?

  by Yan Bibiyan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jws, as well as other creationists as far as i know, use the argument that the odds of life starting on its own, from a mere mix of chemicals are beyond the mathematically acceptable limits and therefore life must have been designed by a higher being.

  my study conductor, a window washer by trade (no, really, this is not a jab at the guys choice of making a living) told me that those odds were calculated to be beyond 1:1x10100and statistically anything over 1:1x1050is considered impossible.

  i can understand the odds.

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  pirata

  Great Post!
• 
  39

  What percentage of JWs have been disfellowshipped?

  by JWoods in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was just thinking about people i knew - and i come up with around 15% who were disfellowshipped.

  some got re-instated, some left for good, i even know a few who were disfellowshipped more than once.

  it may be even higher than that - certainly it is pretty common in jwland.. i know that other religions have a theoretical state of disfellowshipping - the catholics have excommunication, for example.

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  pirata

  pirata, I am a silent one. Just FYI.

  Oops! I always read your username as "a silent stone" for some reason. I thought it was a play on how the stones would cry out if no one preached. Interesting how once the brain thinks it sees something, it continues to apply the false perception without correcting itself.

  It's not just you. Today I just realized that 'yknot' is 'why not' instead of 'y-k-not'
• 
  39

  What percentage of JWs have been disfellowshipped?

  by JWoods in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was just thinking about people i knew - and i come up with around 15% who were disfellowshipped.

  some got re-instated, some left for good, i even know a few who were disfellowshipped more than once.

  it may be even higher than that - certainly it is pretty common in jwland.. i know that other religions have a theoretical state of disfellowshipping - the catholics have excommunication, for example.

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  pirata

  silentstone, The only figures from jwfacts are the total publishers. I applied the ballpark 1% estimate to that for the estimated numbers disfellowshipped (3rd column).

  steve2, I think the phrase is, "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics". I was suprised at the high number myself. However, the 1% figure comes from a number of different sources. In addition to the statement above, jwfacts also reports a few others:

  This is based on Watchtower 1992 July 1 p.19 "In recent years disfellowshippings worldwide have been approximately 1 percent of publishers."

  Watchtower 1986 January 1 p.13 stated, ?It is to be noted, also, that during the past year, 36,638 individuals had to be disfellowshipped from the Christian congregation? In 1985 average publishers were 2,865,183, so 36,638 represented 1.28%.
  
  Watchtower 1987 September 15 p.13 ?Unfortunately, during the 1986 service year, 37,426 had to be disfellowshipped from the Christian congregation?? Of the 3,063,289 publishers this represented 1.22%

  In regards to the cumulative figures over decades, the 1% amount is applied to the number of publishers per year and is not derived from the previous years calculation. The main question is how accurate the 1% figure over the course of each year. If we went with 0.5% disfellowshipping rate instead, that would still come to about 800,000 people total.

  The jwfacts page takes a different approach and looks at the difference between the numer baptized and the increase in publishers. Using that method (and assuming a death rate of 0.85%) there are about 1,000,000 unaccounted for from 1996 to 2005. That's a more accurate measure of NET movement (including reinstatements).

  Each of us would know from our current and/or previous congregations that relatively few were disfellowshipped.

  Applying the 19% figure to a congregation that currently has 100 publishers would mean that 1 person would have to get DF'd ever 2.6 years over the past 50 years (not taking into account death rate) in that congregation.
• 
  39

  What percentage of JWs have been disfellowshipped?

  by JWoods in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was just thinking about people i knew - and i come up with around 15% who were disfellowshipped.

  some got re-instated, some left for good, i even know a few who were disfellowshipped more than once.

  it may be even higher than that - certainly it is pretty common in jwland.. i know that other religions have a theoretical state of disfellowshipping - the catholics have excommunication, for example.

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  pirata

  Please note that it was stated

  19% of the people, who have been or are JWs, have been or are disfellowshipped

  The numbers above do not attempt to estimate the numbers who are DF'd and remain out. Merely the amount of people that have been DF'd in the past 50 years in comparison to the number of publishers last year.
• 
  39

  What percentage of JWs have been disfellowshipped?

  by JWoods in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was just thinking about people i knew - and i come up with around 15% who were disfellowshipped.

  some got re-instated, some left for good, i even know a few who were disfellowshipped more than once.

  it may be even higher than that - certainly it is pretty common in jwland.. i know that other religions have a theoretical state of disfellowshipping - the catholics have excommunication, for example.

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  pirata

  They are the average publisher stats published yearly in the yearbook/watchtower (current year available online at http://www.watchtower.org/e/statistics/worldwide_report.htm)

  The 1% figure I arrived at using a different source, but agrees with the 1% figure at jwfacts.

  Note that the 19% is NOT 19% per year. It's 19% of those DF'd in the past 50 years compared to the average number of publishers today.