Posts by TTWSYF

144

1st Cen. Christianity - One Organization

by StandFirm in

here is the promised debate.

the subject is whether or not god has an organization.

i'll start things simply:.

TTWSYF

By the fourth century, teachings were so diverse it was not clear what was "Christian"and what was not. Constantine asked for the Christians to settle the matter, and the Nicene Creed was the result. A big "losing" doctrine was Arianism. It is apparent that any central authority, if it ever existed, was gone by then.

I disagree. The Bishops of Rome had been established for hundreds of years. Peter was the first, then Linus and so on. I wonder when, exactly the 'great apostasy' happened. Which Bishop of Rome was in charge. Arianism wasn't a just a big losing doctrine. It was heresy. How do we know? For those of us who believe the bible is the word of God, the proof is in the bible when Jesus told Peter that he was the rock that Jesus would build HIS church on. He also said that the gates of hell would NEVER overcome it. The first 40 Bishops of Rome follow. It is also interesting to note that although there have been several 'anti-popes', none of them have changed the churches doctrine. Respectfully, DC

St. Peter (32-67)
St. Linus (67-76)
St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
St. Clement I (88-97)
St. Evaristus (97-105)
St. Alexander I (105-115)
St. Sixtus I (115-125) Also called Xystus I
St. Telesphorus (125-136)
St. Hyginus (136-140)
St. Pius I (140-155)
St. Anicetus (155-166)
St. Soter (166-175)
St. Eleutherius (175-189)
St. Victor I (189-199)
St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
St. Callistus I (217-22) Callistus and the following three popes were opposed by St. Hippolytus , antipope (217-236)
St. Urban I (222-30)
St. Pontain (230-35)
St. Anterus (235-36)
St. Fabian (236-50)
St. Cornelius (251-53) Opposed by Novatian , antipope (251)
St. Lucius I (253-54)
St. Stephen I (254-257)
St. Sixtus II (257-258)
St. Dionysius (260-268)
St. Felix I (269-274)
St. Eutychian (275-283)
St. Caius (283-296) Also called Gaius
St. Marcellinus (296-304)
St. Marcellus I (308-309)
St. Eusebius (309 or 310)
St. Miltiades (311-14)
St. Sylvester I (314-35)
St. Marcus (336)
St. Julius I (337-52)
Liberius (352-66) Opposed by Felix II , antipope (355-365)
St. Damasus I (366-83) Opposed by Ursicinus, antilast for ALL ages.pope (366-367)
St. Siricius (384-99)
St. Anastasius I (399-401)

144

1st Cen. Christianity - One Organization

by StandFirm in

here is the promised debate.

the subject is whether or not god has an organization.

i'll start things simply:.

TTWSYF

Satanus- certainly people are aloud to disagree on issues and openly discuss them. Paul was a different kind of apostle who met the glorified Jesus. The other apostles had known the man. So one could see how they make look at things a little differently. That said, The Jerusalem Council in Acts [15] was presided over by Peter, not James [who was the bishop of Jeusalem], and not Paul. Peter led it and his decisions were accepted by all there.

It is also worth noting some other examples showing that Peter was the Rock of which Jesus spoke [aside from the obvious Mathew 16;18].

In John 21;15-17 Jesus asks Peter to feed his sheep [3xs]

In Luke 22;32 Jesus prays that Peter's faith would be strong so that he could in turn stregthen the other apostles.

In Acts 3;6-12 Peter performs the 1st miracle after the Pentecost.

Acts 2;41 he was the first to perform a mass baptism.

In Mark 16;7 an angel of the Lord tells the women at Jesus tomb to tell Peter and the other apostles about the risen Lord.

To name a few examples of Peter's authority.

respectfully,

dc

66

New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures

by Quendi in

i know this has been discussed before, but i want to reopen the topic.

i am currently reading ray franz's memoir crisis of conscience and ran across this footnote with respect to the new world translation of the holy scriptures:.

"the new world translation bears no translator's name and is presented as the anonymous work of the "new world translation committee.

TTWSYF

The 'Classical Greek vs Koine Greek' thing. Isn't that how the NWT first mucked up the whole stake/cross ;stauros; thing to begin with?

Stauros means mearly an upright stake or pale in Classical Greek. Reasoning from the scriptures WTS NY 1985, 89

Classical Greek had not been spoken for centuries before Christ's birth.

Stauros in Koine Greek means [1]an upright stake with a cross-beam above it, [2] two intersecting beams of equal length, or [3] a vertical, pointed stake [Gerhard Kittle and Gerhard Friedrich, eds. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament- Grand Rapids:Eerdmans, 1971- 7;572]

dc

144

1st Cen. Christianity - One Organization

by StandFirm in

here is the promised debate.

the subject is whether or not god has an organization.

i'll start things simply:.

TTWSYF

The 1st century Christians confirmed their Bishops, Deacons, Preist by the Holy Spirit and the laying of hands. They would pray over and for people. They gave alms to the poor, to the hungry, to the sick and the widows. They baptized entire families and households [children included] at once. They all accepted the decisions regarding doctrine from Peter/Simon.

Which church was that again?

dc

15

How many Mass-holes are there here?

by TTWSYF in

jw
friends

ok, i'm one.

to those who do not know the term, it is a reference [from people from other us states], to discribe auto drivers from massachusetts.. dc.

TTWSYF

CBJr

17

Time demands of the Jehovah's Witness religion compared with other religions?

by stapler99 in

jw
friends

i've been wondering how other religions, such as other christian denominations, would compare to the jw's in their time demands.. .

i'll lay out the approximate hours per week below.

(i know some of the meeting lengths have changed in recent years, and the bookstudy has been abolished.

TTWSYF

A typical Sunday mass at a Catholic church is less than an hour.

Yes, unless it's a family/kids mass or an Easter vigil or such. 58 mins today [mother's day at my church]. Interesting to note that 3/4 of the time is literally reading the scriptures [1st reading OT, 2nd readingNT, PslamsOT, Gospel & EuchuristNT]. Then maybe 1/4 of the time filled with 'fluff' depending on how 'long winded' the preist giving the homily is.

I've also been to 'congregational' churches on several occassions and found a similair format, but with different scripture/fluff ratios.

By contrast, I've found JW services to be some scriptural verses and then lots of fluff. I was really amazed at the lack of actual prayer at these services.

Of course, we all 'go with what we know', right?

respectfully,

dc

15

How many Mass-holes are there here?

by TTWSYF in

jw
friends

ok, i'm one.

to those who do not know the term, it is a reference [from people from other us states], to discribe auto drivers from massachusetts.. dc.

TTWSYF

I'm from the Ville' [that's Somerville]. We have a rotary of two there. A friend of mine from Illinios tells me that we're Massholes because we have stupid things like traffic rotarys....oh and we drive like...well, you know.

66

New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures

by Quendi in

i know this has been discussed before, but i want to reopen the topic.

i am currently reading ray franz's memoir crisis of conscience and ran across this footnote with respect to the new world translation of the holy scriptures:.

"the new world translation bears no translator's name and is presented as the anonymous work of the "new world translation committee.

TTWSYF

I agree with Mad S. I see the NWT as a version. It is not a translation as words, phrases, and ideas are added to change the meaning to something other than the writers meant to convey. I'm not talking about small changes either, but the complete changing of words to fit into the teaching of the WTS.

It is promoted as the most accurate translation ever produced, but the fact that no one else uses it [particularly in the scholastic field] proves that it is a very poor translation. Heck, just reading it is painful to me when side by side with a comprehensive translation.

There is no scholar who endorses the NWT as a complete and accurate work. You will hear people say that there are some parts which were translated well.......Make you wonder, which parts? Which were accurate and which were not. Checking with the KIT shows many examples of poor translationship. [if translationship is even a word]

These 3 examples [not to be confused with the Trinity] are all of the same incident during the last supper.

Matthew 26;26, Mark 14;22, and Luke 22;19 all speak of Jesus words 'This is my body' [or the Greek literal is 'This is the body of me']. In these three verses the NWT has changed the translation to read 'This means my body'

Sure, that looks subtle, but there is no question that such a practice is and example of twisting scripture.

respectfully,

dc

93

How evangelicals and Witnesses are alike

by jgnat in

both believe in the inerrancy of the bible (psalms 12:6, 119:89, proverbs 30:5-6, 2 timothy 3:16-17, 2 peter 1:20-21, rev 22:18-19) and in their absolute correct interpretation.both believe that the other is apostate (2 thessalonians 2:3-4).both believe that the others doctrine is influenced by the devil (genesis 3:1-15, john 8:44).both believe the other is condemned for their false beliefs (2 peter 2:1-3, 1 timothy 4:1-3, 2 timothy 2:16-19, hebrews 6:4-8).neither would darken the door of the others sanctuary, for fear of contamination.both would avoid casual association (proverbs 13:20, 1 corinthians 5:11, 15:33), and certainly would not marry the other (2 corinthians 6:14).both believe that armageddon is imminent and look forward to the purified world afterwards.both consider that the highest form of charity is to convert another.

practical works like feeding the poor are considered inferior.more?

can we make it a dozen (a more perfect number)?.

TTWSYF

Neither truely would 'Honor the Son the same as the Father' John 5;23.........ouch!

dc

15

How many Mass-holes are there here?

by TTWSYF in

jw
friends

ok, i'm one.

to those who do not know the term, it is a reference [from people from other us states], to discribe auto drivers from massachusetts.. dc.

TTWSYF

ok, I'm one. To those who do not know the term, it is a reference [from people from other US states], to discribe auto drivers from Massachusetts.

dc