Posts by Podobear

28

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings and JW prayers

by VM44 in

the following comment was posted in the "mill hill disfellowshipping" thread:.

all 4 were disfellowshipped for believing that the entirety of the ransom, including the new covenant, and the mediatorship and everything else in the bible, applied to everyone.. if that is the case, why do all of the jw prayers, public and private, end with "we pray this through your son, jesus christ, amen"?.

ending prayers like this implies that the payer is going through jesus, hence jesus is the mediator for all prayers made by jws!.

Podobear

Thanks for the thoughts Chalam.. but that does not answer the questions. If ALL Christians are to go to heaven.. what of the New Earth.. those that go to be with the Lord.. have a job to do.

Please read the whole of 1 Corinthians 15, when death is destroyed who will people the New Earth? It is a matter of one hope but (perhaps) two destinies. The nub here is possibly, whether ALL should participate in the "flesh" and "blood" of Christ, regardless of their destiny. This is a JW issue primarily, I think. All the best.

28

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings and JW prayers

by VM44 in

the following comment was posted in the "mill hill disfellowshipping" thread:.

all 4 were disfellowshipped for believing that the entirety of the ransom, including the new covenant, and the mediatorship and everything else in the bible, applied to everyone.. if that is the case, why do all of the jw prayers, public and private, end with "we pray this through your son, jesus christ, amen"?.

ending prayers like this implies that the payer is going through jesus, hence jesus is the mediator for all prayers made by jws!.

Podobear

Thanks.. that is a useful overview, designs. So, the JW's count a New Earth in and as part of the Eternal Design. More Orthodox and Mainstream churches/sects/christians offer just a one way ticket with no end to death, disease and human delinquency. Is there not an argument for saying that noone is certain, and that our destiny and calling are personal.

Perhaps all who are baptised into Christ should partake, therefore.

Let God and Christ sought out where we will end up and what job we have to do. (Never did subscribe to the idea of an eternity playing harps - much more exciting building space ships and exploring the Universe - always been a Trekky, always will be!) Any thoughts?

28

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings and JW prayers

by VM44 in

the following comment was posted in the "mill hill disfellowshipping" thread:.

all 4 were disfellowshipped for believing that the entirety of the ransom, including the new covenant, and the mediatorship and everything else in the bible, applied to everyone.. if that is the case, why do all of the jw prayers, public and private, end with "we pray this through your son, jesus christ, amen"?.

ending prayers like this implies that the payer is going through jesus, hence jesus is the mediator for all prayers made by jws!.

Podobear

Thanks for your contribution knowledge seeker. The posts seem to have dried up. So, I take it then.. that JW's still hold that prayers by those who are not of the "Anointed" are still valid?

Does that mean that you are saying: All should partake in the Lords Evening Meal whether their calling is Heavenly or Earthly (what of the kids?), or that only those who feel they are "anointed" should partake? Can we raise a discussion establishing either view point? And what was the Scriptural reason (other than an alternative point of view) for the disfellowshipping of the Mill Hill 4? (This cliche is beginning to smack of the Tolpuddle Martyrs!! LOL)

All the best Knowlegeseeker.

67

Your worst field service experience.

by littlebird in

my worst field service experience was this.. i didn't have a car at the time and so a pioneer sister was picking me up of service every couple of days.

she was my partner and i got a door where the woman was clearly not interested.

as i am stepping away the pioneer sister starts in with all the objection stoppers.

Podobear

Two amongst many spring to mind..

Shaking the hand of a Surgeon from Nicaragua as his tears rolled down his cheek. He had let a 16 year old girl slip away after a road traffic accident. He wanted assurance that respecting her wishes to decline a blood transfusion was the right thing to do. He blabbed, "there was no time", "there was no time". "Blood was all I had to get the oxygen into her..." My God, he was in a state. It haunts my head and my gut to this day.

Calling at a home in Paddington, West London with an ex Gilead missionary from Albany, Georgia. Guy came to door in only his underpants (briefs U.S) and nothing else. I opened the presentation: "Good morning. Sorry to knock you up Sir...the reason for our calling etc etc". My poor companion nearly creased with embarrassment and turned a beautiful autumnal red! Britain and America.. two nations separated by the same language, eh? (I hasten to add she trumped my faux pas by chiding a kid in one of the KH's in Albany for his misbehaviour... "Be quiet you little Bugger!" This Brit. went into cringe overdrive)

31

Have JW's got the Memorial date wrong?

by wobble in

jw
friends

i remember a long and complicated debate between our very own joseph malik and the unbelievably named rud perrson about the sabbaths that seemed to show that the nit-picking witlesses had even got this wrong !.

i would love to see a simple explanation.. the other thing is that i do believe the once a year thing is wrong, jesus didn't say "every passover", they were enjoying a meal together, and he said "as often as you do this......" so whenever they ate together it would be good to have something that celebrated jesus' life and death.. but is nisan14 wrong anyway ?.

love.

Podobear

Have you tried reading the material published by Greg Stafford on this subject, Wobble? There appears to be no firm understanding about the frequency of the celebration, the accuracy of the exact time of the Passover. And, despite being known as Quartodecinarians, this appears to have been due consensus by the early "church".. the Romans knowing exactly where to find hoards of Christians on that "memorial" night. All the best. Podo..

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Podobear

Breathing: Thanks for your honesty. Shame you couldn't give some input on doctrinal stuff here. (I agree with your sentiments).

Speculation on meaning leads to all sorts of interpretations and largely explains the diversity and confusion in the halls of Christendom. The JW environment gives little manoeuver for understanding the point of view of others, so it seems. On the other hand, treat yourself to reading the DOUGLAS WALSH trial online, to see JW policy in stark relief. You either keep your doubts under your belt or you have to preach and distribute items that you feel uneasy with. The faith I accepted at baptism had been distorted by the time I left, so I fell silent.

I have already had some very supportive posts to me here, and one stunning conversation which was like a good tonic after a long illness!! Thank you to that person. Talking without the fear of recrimination is cathartic. So, Breathing, if you want to talk to any individual.. drop them a line. It won't take you long to navigate around here.. and you never know who you will bump into. Very best wishes as you find your own pathway.

Looking forward to more constructive contributions here on PaP's thread. All the best.

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Podobear

A warm embrace Breathing! You and me both. In my case, my departure caused such a deep wound in my already divided family, I too kept quiet. It has taken me many years to find my feet. You will find a broad spectrum of the disenchanted here. In rainbow terms, ranging from calm greens to firey reds.. as I found out almost immediately.

Stick with it and those who share your experiences and thoughts will come forward and reason with you. There are some brilliant posters here. Enjoy!

Have you any thoughts on the subject of the Mill Hll 4 and the reason for their disfellowshipping? A penny (or a dime if you are from the U.S) for your thoughts.

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Podobear

Thanks a million Paulapollos for bringing us online with that information. Up until recent times I have been following the writings of Greg Stafford on this very subject.

My understanding of the subject has been posted on Mill Hill disfellowshippings - JW prayers, and Wobble has given me research in more recent JW writings. So, there is not much point repeating my post here.

BTW: Now that PaP has clarified the issue, how many of you realise that this is the very issue that started the 1981 disfellowshipping cull in Brooklyn? Several Spanish speaking congregations were persuaded to partake of the emblems, regardless of the "calling" that they felt. It started in the translation department - since then as you know - translations are virtually simultaneous in all languages to ensure harmony of thought.

If all Christians are called to heaven with Christ: The questions beg "What are they going to do there?" "Will death and disease be forever part of the cycle of the human race", "Where was the Paradise promised to the Evildoer? Alongside Christ, as promised only the night before to the faithful 11.. or by resurrection to a New Earth..and,

Indeed, whether Christ calls his own to serve at his side or to enjoy eternal (but not immortal) life on Earth in flesh and blood: Should not ALL partake of his flesh and blood as part of a GLOBAL Kingdom Arrangement. Actually, the way JW's explain things supports that very idea: One hope, just different destinies. Only those who are not worthy, Paul says, should not partake. What exactly does that mean, then?

Looking forward to the discussion as PaP has graciously thrown to us. Best wishes.

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Podobear

Wobble: Thanks matey. I have posted my response to the research you have posted on the thread started by VM44, (cf: Mill Hill 4 - prayer). The subject material seems to be wandering here just a bit.

Jookbeard: I agree with your sentiments entirely. Fancy a beer sometime with a few others here? It took me two decades to pluck up the courage to join in a discussion group like this. Your comments and that of Quillsky (Ms. Toblerone LOL) are very perseptive. I left for numerous reasons but it was THEY who altered the doctrine I accepted when I submitted to baptism - not me. That is why I do not consider myself an apostate, hold no fixed affiliation, and refuse to be labelled or God slotted.

As I noted before the style of Mr Brown is typically in the Pentecostal/Evangelical arena. They ripped our wonderful Full Gospel congregation apart and invaded it with Tongues and Healings, frightening off the majority of the members! It was his sort that made me look further and turn to the calm logic of the JW's.

Mr Brown comes over with blathering histrionics and represents a subset of religious psychosis known as COGNITIVE DISSONANCE.

In my search for reason in the jumble of my own departure I believe I have come across Mr Price - I believe, and will stand corrected, he heads up an Evangelical Outreach Group in Craven Arms Shropshire. If so, I was astounded that a man who claims to be 2nd/3rd generation trained knew so little about what JW's ACTUALLY TAUGHT on his given subject. (In that case it was the Presence and the Coming of Christ). When I gave him the book references to correct the assertions in his recording, he never came back.

Similarly, an American "Born Again" Christian who claimed to be an exJW, got his facts about Cornelius wrong and tried to justify setting up faith camps for orphaned Iraqi kids after his fellow believers had just helped liquify their parents in the name of George Bush and Jesus Christ!!! When I asked him if Cornelius would obey instructions to put his brothers and sisters to the sword in a Roman Arena, he went off line.

I have my doubts too. Really, please, can we hear more on the subject of the Mill Hill 4.

Finally, I would like to pass a tongue in cheek comment to BorgHater. Take it from a former Pentecostal, if you think the JW's have hijacked our minds you have seen nothing yet.

Perhaps Mr Brown and his colleagues should redub themselves: THE HEROGENS..... be careful ( to quote 7 of 9) they don't have your intestines for a trophy (and your testicles as earrings).

No doubt Mr Brown will have something to say on that too.

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Podobear

Salut, Aligot!! By Jingo Quillsky, you are right!

Anyone any further thoughts on the subject under discussion? What is the official JW teaching on the Mediatorship of Jesus now, and what was the actual reason why these individuals were disfellowshipped?

Podobear