Posts by Podobear

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

.. ps. I actually meant djeggnog with reference to Hebrews 1.. apologies and best wishes Kenneson.

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

Has wtleaving answered your points sufficiently Kenneson? I could add further comment if you want to fault the reasoning presented.

How you can conclude that two people can be seen talking together are one and the same.. especially in light of the account of John in Revelation 3 especially I cannot possible understand Snowbird, sweetheart. Look at the comments to the Church in Philadelphia.. the father/son relationship continues after the death/resurrection and exaltation of Jesus. He sits at his Father's side.

I can understand that they are so close through Immortality that the visually challenged could get them confused - like Father, like Son - but the rest of the canon of Scripture has them as two distinct personages. Otherwise it makes the reading of Scripture VERY painful.

Please... research the dozen or so texts used to justify the assertion that Jesus is the OT Jehovah.. and you will see that those who are entrenched in the KJV are in a much more corrupt translation than the accusers would make of the NWT. At least the NWT adds Parenthesis for the reader when it wants to clarify the understanding of our feeble English language.

All the Best, Beroean peoples

Podo

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

I cannot see how you draw that conclusion Kenneson, but since I have made sufficient contribution here, and reslight2 has already posted plenty of research to refute your conclusion, I will wait respectfully to see if anyone who claims that Jesus is the same as the Jehovah of the Old Testament can explain the words of Psalm 110:1.

The same is happening here as happened the last time I entered into research on a board like this... Please justify your statement and explain the Psalmists words for me... "The LORD said unto my lord, sit at my right...." Who are they,?... please

Podo

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

I am quite happy to follow a logical discussion Peacedog.... I am pretty chilled on the subject, having spent months on a similar forum and finding myself with a JW and another poster researching the subject to exhaustion. Not one Trinitarian supporter would dissect the text of Psalm 110:1. This text and many associated to it, as Snowbird, has posted is central to our understanding of THE LORD (KJV) and my lord (KJV).

One of the lead arguments of the Author of this thread is that Jesus is the Jehovah of the OT. Check back to your post and my entrance and your challenge to Debator.. and you will find your Parenthesis implies that you agree that Jesus is Jehovah. Or, have I misunderstood your gauntlet to Debator? Trinitarianism has many schools of thought... it has produced the greatest splits in the theology of the Christian movement. It is a smoke string to challenge the Universal Sovereignty of YHWH, the God of Our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ.

Leavingwt:

1) How would I approach a Hindu on the subject? I think I would lay a neutral ground for the thinking individual.. and look at the Three faced gods of Hinduism.. and take them back to the banks of the River Nile.

(I really recommend you fly to Luxor and take the trip along the Upper Nile with a reputable Travel company (Kuoni were brillian) and a good guide - it adjusted a lot of my own preconceptions about the origins of many of the great Religions)

The culture along the Ganges probably developed from the worship of the Cow as one of the "gods" of Egypt. I would love to travel to Lower Egypt and Cairo with the purpose of following the trail to the Indus Valley. It would make a trip to India fascinating.

Having established that the thought processes of many cultures originated in Egypt, I would then follow the uniqueness of the Jews who carried their ONE God in a box, an Ark, out of Egypt. Immersed and surrounded by Chaldean/Egyptian/Babylonian mysticism, the Jews sought to preserve the purity of the One God ho 'Theos, Jehovah.

2) The litmus test for me, is the personal relationship I have with ho 'Theos. Embrassing the Universal Purpose of life and hope, in my case through an accurate knowledge of my Lord Jesus, is central to that relationship. Anything that detracts from recognising ho 'Theos, Jehovah as Almighty Sovereign is a challenge by rebels to destroy our Oneness with that Supreme Being.

3) I have met True Christians, attending many churches or none at all. They are broadly, what I would describe as Beroean Christians. I once believed that the WTBTS sole purpose was to gather those "sheep" into one flock. The doctrine I accepted at baptism, and even the baptism vows themselves, have been altered and distorted so badly.. that I can no longer accept the man-made efforts of the WT as Total Truth.

Noone is alive from the First Century to confirm the meaning of much of what was said, and each Christian subdivision claims that its interpretation is the right one.

The words of a song at the KH echo through my mind: "To whom do you belong... which God will you obey..." every bond fide JW/exJw/fencesitter will relate to that comment.

Recently, I participated in an animated online discussion over the Iraq war with a very lively group. It got really passionate until a member, a guy from the SDA group chipped in.. "I believe that God's sheep graize on many Hills..." , the board was instantly calmed. He said it all.

I guess that is my position to.. but I will rise to defend the obvious.. and look for the unity of thought and harmony in everything I discuss. The Beroeans have it in my book. Hope that addresses your thoughts.

Podo

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

Absolutely Syl: Thank you. Peacedog has missed the point entirely.

You should include in your research: De Trinitas Erroribus dedicated to Michael Servetus 1511-1533. There are about one dozen texts that Trinitarians relish and abuse in the TRANSLITERATION from Greek to English, notably from the text of the Greek Septuagint.

I have commended the research of just one example of the dozen to you Peacedog. Now, please, without anymore deflection would you please explain to us your understanding of Psalm110:1... this is crystal clear to me as a non Trinitarian that the Son and YHWH the Father are two distinct beings.

I have absolutely no problem with the rest of the canon of Scripture in understanding the Father/Son relationship. It is the corruption of Paganized priests and their doctrine that distorts the mind of the Trinitarian. There is but one God, The Father.. YHWH, whom even the exalted Jesus acknowledges as God (ho. 'Theos). Jesus is NOT Jehovah (YHWH)

Your explanation please of Psalm 110:1... please (again)

Hi leavingwt: btw I left quite some time ago, but remain resolute on this doctrine. The Identity of Our Creator, and the "Kingdom" arrangement is essential in our understanding of how the UNIVERSE is governed. In simplistic terms, the Bible is an account of how Rebellion set in and a 1/3 of the heavenly creation by God turned against Universal Sovereignty..... This Earth is slap bang in the middle of it all, with the Arch rival and leader (a.k.a Satan the Devil) in charge of this section of the Universe.

The chief Son of ho 'Theos.. YHWH (Jehovah) came to this earth to redeem us and resolve the challenge by Satan and his confederates. He, Jesus, proved faithful.. leading the way of redemption.

It therefore follows that any doctrine, (like the Trinity), that deflects from the Supreme Sovereignty of YHWH is an absolute blasphemy against the Univeral name of YHWH (ho 'Theos) the God of Jesus Christ. So, yes, I believe that the Trinity is a total Heresy by implying that Jah, Jehovah and Jesus the Son are one and the same. It is Satanic and an abomination. And, that is why True Christians reject it as Pagan Apostasy. I am with the JW's and Others on this issue.

Podo

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

Hebrews 1:10: You have given just one example of Scriptural passages that Trinitarians twist to suit their unstable reasoning, peacedog.

Paul quotes here from Psalm 102:25,26 and its contextual application to YHWH. The Hebrew readers are not Trinitarians but SEVERE monotheistic Jews. Nothing in these verses would have prepared a Hebrew reader for the extraordinary idea that the Son was in fact THE GOD, or that Jesus was the YHWH of the Hebrew Scriptures.

It is completely illogical the writer would suddenly assert such a thing without adequate preparation to Biblically-aware Monotheistic Jews.

Go back in your reading to verse 7: there are three types here, Angels, The Son, and THE LORD (YHWH) (Hence my request that you explain Psalm 110:1). Those who had been following the writer would have no reason to assume that the Lord of Psalm 102 was the Son himself. It would be obvious to any Jewish reader that this "LORD" is the Creator YHWH himself.

The previous quotation had proven that the Messiah (The Anointed One) was exalted only over his "partners" (companions), NOT GOD. Indeed the Son has his own "God." This could never be said of "ho THEOS" The God, for He has no God himself. (Deuteronomy 10:17)

It goes without saying that a Jewish reader, reading without explanatory explanation, would have no difficulty in understanding that with the breat "and" in verse 10, the subject has moved to YHWH, Jehovah as Psalm 102 has it.

Typical of Trinitarian translators, some have added phrases to "and" indicating the "Son" of verse 8 is in fact YHWH of Psalm 102. The Greek does not allow for this!! Such a translation must be considered a Trinitarian paraphrase ignoring the context.

So, rather than bait Debator, Peacedog... research the dishonesty of the Trinitarian translator and put the Scriptures into the context and mind of the original reader.

You will be amazed how warped some translators are. The worst example is 1 John 5:7.. look it up in Wikepedia.

The Trinity is a Chaldean/Babylonian heresy introduced by corrupt priests and endorsed by a Pagan convert Constantine into church doctrine at the Confernce of Nicea in 325. It has no place in Judeo-Christian theology.

Fancy doing back flips through your own hoops now, Peacedog???

Podo

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

So, please explain the meaning of Psalm 110:1 peacedog: Every Trinitarian debating this issue has always avoided explaining this Scripture. Will one of you please enlighten me? Thank you.

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

Jesus is the Son of God... hundreds of scriptures tell us that... cite just ONE that uses the expression GOD THE SON. You argue semantics Kenneson. Jesus is the means by which all other creation came into existence.

He was rewarded with Immortality at the right hand of God according to Scripture. Before that he was Mortal, both in heaven and on earth, he could have rebelled, but he poured out his life for us ... died and was resurrected 3 days later. The Angel known as Satan and his rebels are also Mortal.. not Immortal.. they depend on Almighty God as the source of life. Jesus is now IMMORTAL.. his reward for his faithfulness. His life, his pain and his sacrifice, mean nothing if he was Almighty God himself.

The trinity does not make sense, and as I said there are about a dozen scriptures which could be ambiguous.. and then there is the blatant KJV corruption of 1 John 5:7.. otherwise known as the Johannine coma. Such blasphemy on the part of the priests of the courts of King James!

Podo

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

"Jehovah saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool." American Standard Version Psalm 110:1

No matter how I try undisfellowshipped, I cannot fit most of your definition of the Trinity into this scripture. David recognised a simple Father & Son relationship.

There are about a dozen well known Scriptures that "Trinitarians" have tinkered with to justify their theology the most notorious is the Johannine Comma. To me this is Semantics, like Evolution.. if you believe it emerged from the big bang theory with chance producing what we see today.. that takes more "faith" than simply accepting that Evolution is simply Adaptation of the Species, borne from a wise and purposeful Creator.

Similarly, Jesus takes on the attributes of his Father and sometimes the functions too.. but he is a "creation" both in a heavenly and earthly sense. So, No, he is NOT Jehovah.

The burden of proof rests with you, if you wish to rise to the challeng.

I await your explanation of Psalm 110:1... in its fullness please.

Podo

144

Bane admits that Christians are to abstain from "eating blood".

by moshe in

from an earlier topic-.

"moshe, ready for another biblical smackdown?.

christians.

Podobear

Titus: Imam dva bloleznika iz Sarajeva, muz i zena, sada u mirovini. Jedan je bio ucitelj, a drugi je umjetnik. Oni lijevo Bosni zbog mrznje izmedu radikalnih elemenata Srpske pravoslavne crkve i Islama.

Oni su prekrasne ljude.

Molimo vas, nemojte nastaviti svoj nerazumno ponasanje. Komentar iskreno ovdje na temu razmatra.. da li da... "se suzdrze od krvi", ili ne. Pokazi nam da ste u mogucnosti to razlog s cistim i lijepe misli.

Mi ocekujemo Vas smatraju komentar na engleskom molimo. Moj racunalo neci dopustiti mene to prevoditi tekst i pismo izvan tog.

Podo.

Outlaw: I have extended the olive branch in the hope of peace.. I await a reasoned reply from Titus, and hope we continue this thread informatively. All the best.