Posts by Podobear

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

peacedog: With respect you haven't answered the question at all... Psalm 110:1 and all the texts linked through scripture clearly demonstrate that @TWO separate beings are referred to... and that thought continues in the Revelation. cf; particularly to Revelation 3:12 amidst the counsel and praise of the church in Philadelphia. Why would Bible writers pen such a complex meaning as you outline... YHWH to the Lord incarnate? Jesus is clearly separate from his Father after the Resurrection. Period. Nothing complicated... two identifiable and separate beings, not part of a Mystic Godhead.

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457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

@ peacedog: You promised to give me a considered reply to Psalm 110:1; Who are the two Lords? This has now developed to a request to understand the meaning of Revelation 3:7-13; especially verse 12 where the resurrected, exalted Jesus still refers to his Father and his God.. how then, can Jesus and Jehovah be one and the same? Please enlighten me.. or is the request really so simple no one can answer?

Jesus is NOT Jehovah.. they are two separate beings, one is Almighty and the other is Mighty, exalted, and resurrected and has been give the gift of immortality. Prove otherwise please.

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457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

As a non-Trinitarian and believer that Jesus and Jehovah are separate beings, I accept that Jesus is "divine" in nature, and that is all the Scriptures are saying Undisfellowshipped. The reward for his faithfulness is Immortality.. which he evidently did not have before.

Following on, he still addresses his God and Father and writes the name "of his God" on the foreheads of the faithful of the church of Philadelphia.

Would it not have been easier for the Bible writers to pen their words more succinctly if your particular view of Trinitarian concept were the truth?

NO! The LORD YHWH is different from the Lord (Jesus) because the First is Almighty and the Creator of the Other. The Latter is the faithful creation of the other, and is our means of Salvation. He is the Light of the World, the means of Our Salvation, champion of Jehovah his Father.

The Bible message is simple throughout, once the difficulties of transliteration from Ancient texts are overcome in the text of our poor excuse of a modern language... English.

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73

what was the worst advice given to you while you were a JW ?

by wasblind in

mine's was, if your job interfere with the meetings you have to decide who you will choose,.

serving jehovah or serving man, if anyone knew my needs it most definitely was jehovah.

and he knew i needed my job to eat.

Podobear

My worst advice was probably my best advice, I turned my lemon into lemonade:

Having given up a good education (jumped a year at high school and was scheduled to go to University a year ahead of normal age of entry), I was told by a Bethel Elder "Your problem is You're All Heavenly and No Earthly Good", promptly followed by a barracking in front of the congregation by a MS : "Stop spongeing off the rest of us and go get a proper job", followed by a discourse to the congregation by the DO (who was a qualified Architect - self taught whilst pioneering no doubt) about the follow of leaving School with insufficient qualifications to support ourselves through life.

My Bible closed, and I have attended 3 memorials in 24 years, out of an ebbing sense of loyalty.

It has been hard turning this ship around and have almost capsized on many occasions, but I obtained a BSc 15 years ago, have my own private practice (in a profession allied to medicine), will never retire but try to keep healthy day by day to defeat my late on set diabetes. Have battled through Prostate Cancer scare this year and facing amputation, have managed to lose 103 lbs and isolate the cause aggrevating my diabetes and causing my weight gain. [White flour.. bleached bread, pasta, rice cf; Alloxan and the poisonous effects on the Pancreas] Currently spearheading the Diabetic Support group in our city.

Determined to defeat that mantras in my mind, by showing these idiots that people need more than the Word of God to live on.. and that God helps those who help themselves.

Bitter, Defeated? No way. Angry? YES... Kids, especially, if you are reading this "Look after Yourself", find your way, and if the JW way is still your chosed path, make sure you have the walking boots of life firmly laced up ... less you become foot loose like many of the generation of '75.

Hope you don't mind the outburst, folks.

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457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

@Peacedog: As promised, would you now answer for me, your understanding of the The Two Lords mentioned in Psalm110, and now laterly the question I have asked in response to Snowbird's comment... why does Jesus still have a God and Father, after his death, resurrection and exaltation.. cf; Revelation 3 to the Church of Philadelphia... what is the name of HIS GOD written on the Head of the Faithful of that Church?

Many thanks.

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457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

.. ps. I actually meant djeggnog with reference to Hebrews 1.. apologies and best wishes Kenneson.

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

Has wtleaving answered your points sufficiently Kenneson? I could add further comment if you want to fault the reasoning presented.

How you can conclude that two people can be seen talking together are one and the same.. especially in light of the account of John in Revelation 3 especially I cannot possible understand Snowbird, sweetheart. Look at the comments to the Church in Philadelphia.. the father/son relationship continues after the death/resurrection and exaltation of Jesus. He sits at his Father's side.

I can understand that they are so close through Immortality that the visually challenged could get them confused - like Father, like Son - but the rest of the canon of Scripture has them as two distinct personages. Otherwise it makes the reading of Scripture VERY painful.

Please... research the dozen or so texts used to justify the assertion that Jesus is the OT Jehovah.. and you will see that those who are entrenched in the KJV are in a much more corrupt translation than the accusers would make of the NWT. At least the NWT adds Parenthesis for the reader when it wants to clarify the understanding of our feeble English language.

All the Best, Beroean peoples

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457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

I cannot see how you draw that conclusion Kenneson, but since I have made sufficient contribution here, and reslight2 has already posted plenty of research to refute your conclusion, I will wait respectfully to see if anyone who claims that Jesus is the same as the Jehovah of the Old Testament can explain the words of Psalm 110:1.

The same is happening here as happened the last time I entered into research on a board like this... Please justify your statement and explain the Psalmists words for me... "The LORD said unto my lord, sit at my right...." Who are they,?... please

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457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

I am quite happy to follow a logical discussion Peacedog.... I am pretty chilled on the subject, having spent months on a similar forum and finding myself with a JW and another poster researching the subject to exhaustion. Not one Trinitarian supporter would dissect the text of Psalm 110:1. This text and many associated to it, as Snowbird, has posted is central to our understanding of THE LORD (KJV) and my lord (KJV).

One of the lead arguments of the Author of this thread is that Jesus is the Jehovah of the OT. Check back to your post and my entrance and your challenge to Debator.. and you will find your Parenthesis implies that you agree that Jesus is Jehovah. Or, have I misunderstood your gauntlet to Debator? Trinitarianism has many schools of thought... it has produced the greatest splits in the theology of the Christian movement. It is a smoke string to challenge the Universal Sovereignty of YHWH, the God of Our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ.

Leavingwt:

1) How would I approach a Hindu on the subject? I think I would lay a neutral ground for the thinking individual.. and look at the Three faced gods of Hinduism.. and take them back to the banks of the River Nile.

(I really recommend you fly to Luxor and take the trip along the Upper Nile with a reputable Travel company (Kuoni were brillian) and a good guide - it adjusted a lot of my own preconceptions about the origins of many of the great Religions)

The culture along the Ganges probably developed from the worship of the Cow as one of the "gods" of Egypt. I would love to travel to Lower Egypt and Cairo with the purpose of following the trail to the Indus Valley. It would make a trip to India fascinating.

Having established that the thought processes of many cultures originated in Egypt, I would then follow the uniqueness of the Jews who carried their ONE God in a box, an Ark, out of Egypt. Immersed and surrounded by Chaldean/Egyptian/Babylonian mysticism, the Jews sought to preserve the purity of the One God ho 'Theos, Jehovah.

2) The litmus test for me, is the personal relationship I have with ho 'Theos. Embrassing the Universal Purpose of life and hope, in my case through an accurate knowledge of my Lord Jesus, is central to that relationship. Anything that detracts from recognising ho 'Theos, Jehovah as Almighty Sovereign is a challenge by rebels to destroy our Oneness with that Supreme Being.

3) I have met True Christians, attending many churches or none at all. They are broadly, what I would describe as Beroean Christians. I once believed that the WTBTS sole purpose was to gather those "sheep" into one flock. The doctrine I accepted at baptism, and even the baptism vows themselves, have been altered and distorted so badly.. that I can no longer accept the man-made efforts of the WT as Total Truth.

Noone is alive from the First Century to confirm the meaning of much of what was said, and each Christian subdivision claims that its interpretation is the right one.

The words of a song at the KH echo through my mind: "To whom do you belong... which God will you obey..." every bond fide JW/exJw/fencesitter will relate to that comment.

Recently, I participated in an animated online discussion over the Iraq war with a very lively group. It got really passionate until a member, a guy from the SDA group chipped in.. "I believe that God's sheep graize on many Hills..." , the board was instantly calmed. He said it all.

I guess that is my position to.. but I will rise to defend the obvious.. and look for the unity of thought and harmony in everything I discuss. The Beroeans have it in my book. Hope that addresses your thoughts.

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457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

Absolutely Syl: Thank you. Peacedog has missed the point entirely.

You should include in your research: De Trinitas Erroribus dedicated to Michael Servetus 1511-1533. There are about one dozen texts that Trinitarians relish and abuse in the TRANSLITERATION from Greek to English, notably from the text of the Greek Septuagint.

I have commended the research of just one example of the dozen to you Peacedog. Now, please, without anymore deflection would you please explain to us your understanding of Psalm110:1... this is crystal clear to me as a non Trinitarian that the Son and YHWH the Father are two distinct beings.

I have absolutely no problem with the rest of the canon of Scripture in understanding the Father/Son relationship. It is the corruption of Paganized priests and their doctrine that distorts the mind of the Trinitarian. There is but one God, The Father.. YHWH, whom even the exalted Jesus acknowledges as God (ho. 'Theos). Jesus is NOT Jehovah (YHWH)

Your explanation please of Psalm 110:1... please (again)

Hi leavingwt: btw I left quite some time ago, but remain resolute on this doctrine. The Identity of Our Creator, and the "Kingdom" arrangement is essential in our understanding of how the UNIVERSE is governed. In simplistic terms, the Bible is an account of how Rebellion set in and a 1/3 of the heavenly creation by God turned against Universal Sovereignty..... This Earth is slap bang in the middle of it all, with the Arch rival and leader (a.k.a Satan the Devil) in charge of this section of the Universe.

The chief Son of ho 'Theos.. YHWH (Jehovah) came to this earth to redeem us and resolve the challenge by Satan and his confederates. He, Jesus, proved faithful.. leading the way of redemption.

It therefore follows that any doctrine, (like the Trinity), that deflects from the Supreme Sovereignty of YHWH is an absolute blasphemy against the Univeral name of YHWH (ho 'Theos) the God of Jesus Christ. So, yes, I believe that the Trinity is a total Heresy by implying that Jah, Jehovah and Jesus the Son are one and the same. It is Satanic and an abomination. And, that is why True Christians reject it as Pagan Apostasy. I am with the JW's and Others on this issue.

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