Posts by Podobear

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

@djeggnog: Do you really think any of us accept you as a spokesperson for Jehovah's Witnesses? You have broken every rule in the GB rule book by being here. Thankfully there are reasoning people like Undisfellowshipped who direct us to material confirming current JW thinking on this issue. I may not agree totally with his point of view, but I tell you djeggnog, I would not close the door on him if he came to reason with me. I am astounded by your arrogance and boastfulness.. ashamed that I was taken in by your apparently erudite presentations. "Come let us reason together.." remember that old addage?

Podo

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

@Undisfellowshipped: Thank you for your gracious comments.. that is exactly where I am. I am not a fool in these matters as djeggnog suggests, and I am MORE THAN CLUED up to know that a Bona Fide Elder or JW would not be posting on this forum.

I was set upon on the first posting I made by a certain DAVEBROWN and had hoped to air my views with those who I used to call brother and sister in the hope of claryfing teachings. As you would guess I do not believe that Jesus and Jehovah are one and the same and have followed the discussion on that line alone... without interruption.

It has been interesting and no doubt I will zoom in on other areas of concern as time goes on... my family crest is "Respectez mon droit".. respect my right. As I do that of others. So, thank you.

In the meantime I must address family tensions as I face the blood issue with an ageing and weak parent. It is a little emotionally difficult just now.

Many thanks, Sir.

Podo

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

@djeggnogg: I think your comments to me are a little over the top, to say the least, and may I say the display of the very reason I left the WT organisation. I have not kept up with "current" thinking on the matter. I have always believed that Jehovah exists in THIS Universe... Pleiades aside I had no idea that the teaching had been ditched in favour of a parallel Universe.

HOW DARE YOU JUDGE AND INSULT ME. I was trying to make my way back, my father comes to visit in two days and I have to deal with an opposing mother and a depressed man who is facing major surgery and anxiety over the blood issue.

You call yourself an Elder? You have just knocked me back ten paces! Thanks for nothing buddy. Let Jehovah be your judge too. BIGOT!

Podo -

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

@djeggnogg: I will leave you with this quote from the book RECONCILIATION by J.F. Rutherford 1928. The parallel Universe explanation you gave must have come in after I quit associating with JW's 25 years ago:

The constellation of the seven stars forming the Pleiades appears to be the crowning center around which the known systems of the planets revolve... It has been suggested, and with much weight, that one of the stars of that group is the dwelling place of Jehovah and the place of the highest heavens;....

The constellation of the Pleiades is a small one compared with others which scientific instruments disclose to the wondering eyes of man. But the greatness in size of other stars or planets is small when compared to the Pleiades in importance, because the Pleiades is the place of the eternal throne of God. page 14

Could you provide the current JW work that divulges the concept of a parallel Universe.. Des and his son David (both Pentecostal Pastors) are in my clinic tomorrow morning. I would like to get my quoting right, because the other half of their family are JW's and Elders. What a combo.!

Best wishes, and sorry to come back with extra thought.

Podo

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

@: djeggnog: Excellent. I have never considered a "parallel" Universe, just, as the Scriptures say that humans are of one body and those in Spirit are of another. I shall go back to Des. with the scriptures you have offered. Now, in attendance of Isaacaustins material it is time for me to bow out of this conversation. Thank you again, for clearing up my few remaining enquiries. I should check the doctrine surrounding The Pleides is historic records.. I believe it was a teaching held by Russel... and I have often mused about the location and size of Jah. Very best wishes.

Podo

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

@Djeggnog particularly: The discussion here, despite the usual mockings from some, has been superb.. thank you and Think About It especially for your dogged presentations. Whilst I wait for isaacaustin (who I have also found to be up front and reasoned, thank you) to provide me with some research papers on John 20:28, I have one final question for you and perhaps a reasoning pro-Trinitarian. I have a patient, a Pentecostal Pastor and also his wife, who is keen to get me on the Alpha course at his church. We both shook hands over this one. Please..

If Almighty God Jehovah is an Immortal being without creation, and Jesus is now an Immortal being, and was created... that would mean that Jehovah has size and therefore location in an Infinite, yet ever expanding Universe. [Des (the Pastor) and I met mind to mind on that one]

Therefore, Djeggnog, should JW's do a full circle and return to the days of Pastor Russel and be looking at the Pleides for such location? I know this sounds like the anecdote of the Evolutionists scaling the wall of Theory, reaching the top, only to find a panel of Theologians... (LOL).. but really, does this mean that Almighty God has size and location as JW's presumably see it.. or after all, are we ALL including Jesus to join this Omnipresent, Omnipotent whole as a kind of Universal consciousness? [That, they Father may be one...as WE are one].

In attendance of your mullings over this one. Many thanks.

Podo

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

@isaacaustin: Thank you also for your comment.. I am trying to get my head around the reasoning you gave on Revelation 3:12 but I find that it is just a little the case that the scripture is spinning around a doctrine rather than the context of the scripture. I am still a little shakey as to whether we are to assume that the name referred to is Jehovah (ipso facto: the name of my God and my Father) But thanks anyway.

I doff my cap at your linguistic expertise.. I am schooled in Latin and the syntax of Greek but I find koine syrup!! LOL You mentioned the texts complimenting John 20:28 at variance, using either the Nominative or Vocative case. Do you think this is poor copyists at work, or indeed, doctrinal differences being introduced at an early stage? Do you have an idiots guide, a reference, that would expand on this issue for me to read though? I would appreciate this because this is the point that I bowed out of the last protracted Trinitarian debate. Thanks in advance.

Podo

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

@ peacedog: I am still waiting for an answer to my question from you: I have not entered the debate on the nature of God.. I asked if the you could explain why Jesus himself, in his resurrected state, still referred to his God and Father... surely he did not need to if Jehovah and he were one and the same person. Jesus is Immortal and has the same nature as God.. but he is not God Almighty.

Again, I repeat, I picked up on Undisfellowhipped's ascertion in the opening comments that Jesus and Jehovah are one and the same. There have been some gracious and convincing posts here from Djeggnog, and Think About It.. I especially appreciated the comment on the High Priests head.. which leads me to ask you on from this.. Revelation 3:7-12: If the name of the God and Father of Jesus is on the heads of the faithful...

What is the name above every other name? Is it now, Jesus or is it Jehovah? Anyone, please.

@djeggnog @Think About It: Thank you, the information is very useful

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457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

@djeggnog: Thank you for your presentation on John 20:28. It was very well put.. Koine Greek is not my forte either (LOL).. but your summary saved me wading through the treacle for peacedog. Great reasoning.

I am curious as to why peacedog finds it impossible to explain why Jesus himself continues to refer to His God and Father even after his resurrection... why would he need to do so if Jehovah and Jesus were one and the same?

Would you like to expand your research on the matter, please? Do you think there is sufficient sound argument to show that The Father is Jehovah and that he remains the God and Father of Jesus?

I think so, so do other posters.. what do you think?... whilst we wait for peacedog.

Thank you for your fantastic presentations. Very Interesting reading, djeggnog

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457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Podobear

@peacedog: I read through your comments as promised; where is the explanation I asked for you. I am attempting to try and understand your reasoning. Who is the God and Father of Jesus as cited in the few Scriptures I have listed? I assert that it is Jehovah, a separate being from Jesus.. I am simply attempting and waiting patiently for your explantion. Thank you.

Why are you so evasive? If the answer is that you don't have an answer.. why not say so?

All the best (I am slightly nonplussed at your attitude)

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