Saved_JW

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Posts by Saved_JW

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  754

  Theists, why does God allow suffering..

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ..specifically, the suffering of animals.

  you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

  i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

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  Saved_JW

  I don't know cofty. Your asking me to resort to my emotions as a standard for bad. That's the entire point.
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  11

  Our "Evolved" culture

  by Saved_JW in

  1. social
  2. current

  just a quick reminder of the "evolved" culture we live in:.

  1- we live in a time where the humanity of a child is not determined by science [chromosomes, dna] but by the feelings of the mother.. 2- gender used to be determined by the objective anatomical, psychological, and genetical differences..now based purely on your emotional self.. 3- philosophy used to be a discipline which sought for ultimate truth, arguments were deliberated, calculated, and worldviews challenged.

  humanity sought to know why we believe not just what we believe.

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  Saved_JW

  Just a quick reminder of the "evolved" culture we live in:

  1- we live in a time where the humanity of a child is not determined by science [chromosomes, DNA] but by the feelings of the mother.

  2- Gender used to be determined by the objective Anatomical, psychological, and genetical differences..now based purely on your emotional self.

  3- Philosophy used to be a discipline which sought for ultimate Truth, arguments were deliberated, calculated, and worldviews challenged. Humanity sought to know WHY we believe not just WHAT we believe. Now truth is relative, nobody is wrong and nobody is ultimately right. The Quest for truth is put on the alter of sacrifice so as not to offend FEELINGS.

  4- The bronze age worshipers of Molek in an attempt to usher in a year of good crops and convenience for the family would put their infant child on the bronze alter and watch their child scream and burn to death.

  In a similar vein, our enlightened culture has sacrificed over 300 MILLION children in the most inhumane ways. Dismemberment, Burning alive, and crushing the skulls. Except we used polished terms like "abortion" instead of murder all to maintain a cognitive dissonance and delusion that their sacrifice will bring about an overall convenience for the mother.

  5- We live in a culture where the egg of a bald eagle is more valuable then the life of an unborn human child.

  6- We spend billions of dollars in space exploration looking for a single cell of life, but debate among ourselves whether or not the human embryo is "Really" life.

  7- post birth humans have value; yet there is no value giver

  8- We live in a culture that embraces individual purpose; but denies a purposer.

  9- A culture that values RIGHTS, but has no basis for whence rights come from.

  10 - A culture that thirsts for unity, inclusion, and tolerance yet ironically divides itself by implementing laws that enforce further segregation through "Group rights" [Womens rights, black rights, minority rights ...] and never focus on Human rights.

  Yep thats human progress for ya .
• 
  754

  Theists, why does God allow suffering..

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ..specifically, the suffering of animals.

  you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

  i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

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  2. 
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  Saved_JW

  Because the entire basis of the argument here is this

  Suffering = Bad [assertion] God allows suffering; ergo God is bad
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  754

  Theists, why does God allow suffering..

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ..specifically, the suffering of animals.

  you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

  i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

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  2. 
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  Saved_JW

  When I speak about suffering=bad I am speaking purely in philosophical terms.

  What is the basis for saying [suffering=bad]

  one can even make the case that [living =bad]

  There is no scientific basis for making such an assertion. only feelings of pure conjecture. which is the case Cofty is making.

  unless of course the basis for suffering=bad is purely based on subjective emotions
• 
  754

  Theists, why does God allow suffering..

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ..specifically, the suffering of animals.

  you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

  i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

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  2. 
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  Saved_JW

  Being a philosophy nut myself, I would have to ask a question with your question.

  how does one determine if suffering is evil? what standard are you judging this by?
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  11

  OK The New Releases Are Out: But no one has described them.

  by scotoma in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  apparently jwd has lost all their moles.. hasn't anyone even been to a convention?.

  usually we know in advance..

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  Saved_JW

  I believe the "Kingdom Rule" book is a replcement of the "Organized to do Jehovah's Will" book which is distributed only for members seeking to get baptized. The book should place a huge emphasis on Organizational policy and order.

  The "Your Family Can be happy" book should be the replacement for the "The Secret to Family Happiness" book.

  Those are my assumptions up to this point. I will be going to the convention tomorrow thorugh sunday and ill scan an entire PDF of each book by Monday
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  8

  Big convention in Milwaukee June 2014

  by Joliette in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i work at a hotel, and our hotel literally sold out in two days.

  the jdubs aint playing!

  you would think that the end of the world was coming how they were calling for hotel rooms.

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  Saved_JW

  Joliette,

  I will be going to the Miluwaukee convention this weekend as well, on Saturday, we should meet up!
• 
  58

  Christians please answer something for me

  by confusedandalone in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  or should i say some things.... reading over another thread and a number of other threads i have to ask, why are we making excuses for jesus / god.. how can you fathom and all powerful god who created the universe and all the laws that govern it was not capable of:.

  1. making sure the proper pronunciation of his name is not available.

  2. that all his teaching are not preserved in an easy to discern manner so that ther is no confusion.

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  Saved_JW

  We do not need absolute morality in order to judge moral actions objectively.

  Your comment is self-defeating Cofty. Absolute morality IS Objective morality! You begin by declaring we dont need absolute morality. Then you conclude by declaring we can JUDGE moral actions Objectively?? Either you have an objective starting point to judge actions, or you have a subjective starting point to judge them.

  Whats more interesting is the convient definition you [Or Sam Harris] have given for what morality is:

  Morals are nothing more than our musings about how we promote the flourishing of conscious creatures.

  Thus sayeth Sam Harris, let it be written, let it be done...
  Sorry I dont agree with the creeds of Sam harris as my moral starting point. Just because he says it [or you say it] does not make it absolute.
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  58

  Christians please answer something for me

  by confusedandalone in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  or should i say some things.... reading over another thread and a number of other threads i have to ask, why are we making excuses for jesus / god.. how can you fathom and all powerful god who created the universe and all the laws that govern it was not capable of:.

  1. making sure the proper pronunciation of his name is not available.

  2. that all his teaching are not preserved in an easy to discern manner so that ther is no confusion.

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  Saved_JW

  You have switched the question.

  If somebody enjoys suffering they are mentally ill and we can safely dismiss their opinions.

  well thats your opinion, lol

  "There needs to be a absolute grounding for the truth claim being made [Suffering = Bad]"

  Says who?

  Well this was the original objection to God. The orignial question on the thread was: 4- [Why God] Allows people to suffer and will not help

  This was the moral objection to God. My reply is simple, on what basis is suffering morally "bad"?
  
  Cofty, your standard seems to be pain=wrong, however this cannot ALWAYS be true since not everybody believes that to be the case, many people love pain and consider it a fettish. Your simple dismissal of this by labeling them as "Mentally ill" [hmm sounds like something the watchtower would say] :) Hardly proves your case that your standard MUST be always true. In fact it isnt.
  
  The rason why there must be an absolute standard is because relative standards will not be able to hold so called "Unethical actions of God" as truly being wrong. because after all, Gods actions are relatively good. Thats the point.
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  58

  Christians please answer something for me

  by confusedandalone in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  or should i say some things.... reading over another thread and a number of other threads i have to ask, why are we making excuses for jesus / god.. how can you fathom and all powerful god who created the universe and all the laws that govern it was not capable of:.

  1. making sure the proper pronunciation of his name is not available.

  2. that all his teaching are not preserved in an easy to discern manner so that ther is no confusion.

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  Saved_JW

  Go and ask somebody to kick you really hard in the balls and then get back to me about that.

  Sure I might have a feeling of discomfort and pain, that's quite a different thing from labeling the physical effects of my discomfort from being ethically good or bad. Some people enjoy pain and even consider it a fettish.

  There needs to be a absolute grounding for the truth claim being made [Suffering = Bad]