Windowless ark, windowless kingdom halls? Coincidence? I think not!
-Sab
sabastious
JoinedPosts by sabastious
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by RayPublisher inthe latest magazine has an article about being like noah- and the parallels between jws and noah are uncanny- it's amazing really!
here's a couple of the pics:.
(yes the captions have been tweaked a little...but not much!
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Should Jehovah's Witnesses be added to the Wikipedia article on Doomsday Cults?
by jwfacts inthere is discussion of doomsday cults at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/doomsday_cult, and much of it aligns closely with watchtower predictions and behaviour, so i was wondering why jehovah's witnesses are not mentioned.
here are some quotes from the article:.
doomsday cult is an expression used to describe groups who believe in apocalypticism and millenarianism, and can refer both to groups that prophesy catastrophe and destruction, and to those that attempt to bring it about.
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The Stone the Builders Rejected
by sabastious inin the first post in this series i discussed the identity of the watchtower as per revelation 13. the second post dealt with the identity of the harlot and the scarlet beast.
this post will deal with the third element "the image of the beast", lets read revelation 13:15-17:.
the second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
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sabastious
Shelby, in my studies I have determined that the Beast out of the Earth of Revelation 13 IS the false prophet in Revelation 19 and 20:
Revelation 19 - 19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
Revelation 20 - 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.The "false prophet" mentioned above is the one who performed signs on the behalf of the first beast. This is an identical characteristic of the Beast out of the Earth:
11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.
The "second beast" is the false prophet. The Watchtower does indeed perform great signs and decieve the nations. One of these great signs is their preaching work empowered by systematic mind control (Ancient Egyptian). The Beast out of the Earth is real, but the image of the beast isn't actually real, it's an idol like I previously said. It has no real power whereas the Beast out of the Earth can perform actual greatness which is then used to deceive the nations (WORLD WIDE PREACHING WORK!). The Revelation At Hand book is part of this collective Image of the Beast. A literal interpretation would be man's, not JUST the Watchtower's, attempt to copyright Scripture by creating interpretive literature that they claim supersedes it. The true purpose of the Watchtower Writing Committee is writing false scripture that is then imposed upon the populace. Every JW that swallows the Revelation At Hand book, or any Watchtower publication for that matter, is engaging in cunning form of idolatry. They must immediately stop or face the ultimate consequences. That's why preaching is so important. A lot of people worship idols without knowing it and it's not just the Watchtower. People simply need to be informed.
As for your Hagar being the earth interpretation, I will have to give that a great deal of thought. I have a lot of business to attend to. This has been a great discussion.
Could anything be more Watchtower-like than arguing over the minutiae of so-called bible prophecy?
You are not helping anyone but yourself.
-Sab
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The Stone the Builders Rejected
by sabastious inin the first post in this series i discussed the identity of the watchtower as per revelation 13. the second post dealt with the identity of the harlot and the scarlet beast.
this post will deal with the third element "the image of the beast", lets read revelation 13:15-17:.
the second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
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sabastious
You are making stuff up just to argue.
You just made that up to argue.
First, the Internet has no filters.
Ever heard of the Spirit of Truth? You seem to worship university methodology and empirical evidence. The internet supercedes all organized education it was a necessary evil. Schools are for getting shot at these days it would seem.
If you explained it, yoiu might garner more respect.
I don't care about respect, I care about truth. Anyway, I can see this will not go anywhere. I had hoped that maybe you could see and maybe you still can.
13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
-Sab
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The Stone the Builders Rejected
by sabastious inin the first post in this series i discussed the identity of the watchtower as per revelation 13. the second post dealt with the identity of the harlot and the scarlet beast.
this post will deal with the third element "the image of the beast", lets read revelation 13:15-17:.
the second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
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sabastious
I have been out for decades. My quest is not to supplant the WT with new, goofier interpretations of the Bible.
Correct, that would be a sh*tty quest.
If it is impossible for the GB to accurately describe the long list of characters in Revelation, I submit it is impossible for you.
I can understand this position, however I submit that the internet turns all interpretations created before it on end. Websites like Wikipedia, Biblegateway and BibleSuite would make scholars from the past drool. These tools are changing the every day citizen's knowledge base if they so choose to educate themselves. A good example of this is the atheist population. They know their stuff because they not only have access to a bunch of information, they also share new information with each other. Believers do the same thing. I simply started over from Genesis 1:1 and studied with the aid of the internet. I am almost to Genesis 9 and it's been 2 years. I have realized that much of Jewish and Christian Scripture/doctrine is derived from differing approaches to the Pentateuch. Revelation is highly related to the Hebrew Bible and it's that relation of which holds the key to fully understanding both Revelation and the Torah. I also submit that a proper understanding of the relations between the Torah and the I CHING are extremely important for understanding the big picture. Yet, because of racism such an idea would always have been regarded as preposterous, when it was always the truth. Fear keeps people from the truth. Even you a learned person simply ignore this basic connection when the facts are there for anybody to find. My honest question is what are you scared of? What is everybody scared of? East and west are connected. Such is a time to be joyous and realize that God is NOT racist and has always been with all cultures. Something that Revelation speaks about.
You are welcome to share your beliefs. I do respect you. You state what you believe and do not insult others.
I try not to step on others.
One of the risks of posting is that someone will disagree with you.
I wouldn't know
There is a wealth of material interpreting Revelation and other apocalyptic works.
On this particular subject, anything that isn't on the internet isn't worth reading. That's a thinking that many people just don't have and it shows in the quality of their interpretations. Deep corners of the internet are the best places to learn (like this one).
People just don't argue about which verse everthing in Revelation means.
Nor should they. It's a book of symbols, not verses.
The majority view is as a very spooky book with few Jesus sayings.
Are you the type that goes along with the crowd? I'm not.
It makes no sense when addressing our current world.
That's just a statement without a reason.
I like to see references. "I believe this...... b/c......" can be respected. Posting with no explanation does not convince anyone. Why anyone would leave the Witnesses and continue to engage in fiction is beyond me. Of course, your view is just as valid as that in the WT. After the Witnesses, most here are very wary of claims to be a medium of God.
How could you compare the contents of this thread to the Revelation At Hand book? You just have no basis. I have shown that the Watchtower isn't simply goofy. They are sinister and premeditated, why do you ignore that? Why do you brush it off as if it were nothing? The 66th book of the Bible is one of riddles, which is a concept you conveniently ignore of which perfectly explains YOUR confusion and my LACK THEREOF.
I checked my pms. There are no pms from you in the past two months. I am sending you a test pm.
I gave you the exact dates which were much longer than two months ago. Please give them some thought, it's not going to just jump out. You will have to work for it.
-Sab
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The Stone the Builders Rejected
by sabastious inin the first post in this series i discussed the identity of the watchtower as per revelation 13. the second post dealt with the identity of the harlot and the scarlet beast.
this post will deal with the third element "the image of the beast", lets read revelation 13:15-17:.
the second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
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sabastious
Fiction.
Band, can you please consult three private messages I sent to you while back (Jan 6th, 10th and the 13th of 2012). It should help you understand what is going on. You helped me down this path, why do you now reject it?
-Sab
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The Stone the Builders Rejected
by sabastious inin the first post in this series i discussed the identity of the watchtower as per revelation 13. the second post dealt with the identity of the harlot and the scarlet beast.
this post will deal with the third element "the image of the beast", lets read revelation 13:15-17:.
the second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
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sabastious
My spirit bears witness with much of your last post, dear Sab (again, peace to you!), except as to Babylon the Great being the World Empire of False Religion (that is an erroneous teaching of the WTBTS to detract from what she TRULY is... and what they are. The WEFR is actually the seven heads/"mountains" of the wild beast that comes out of the sea, and the WTBTS is the beast that comes out of the earth).
Even so, may I ask, who/what in your opinion are the "harlots" she is "mother" of?I don't recall saying that Bablyon the Great was the world empire of false religion. Rather, this whole series tries to dispel that misinfomration propagated by the Watchtower Society. Babylon the Great is corrupt mother earth or Eve from Genesis. Both are symbols that encapsulate all that came from the fall of mankind. The whole timeline if you will, including but not limited to Greece, Rome, Great Britain and every world power that has ever existed. All of them stood in opposition to the One True God and always have. Not because they don't believe he exists, but because they believe he exists and fear Him and his holy people. However, they want the power and glory to themselves. How they accomplish this is through usurping the throne of God, by redirecting worship to idols which are always completely false. This is what the world empire of false prophets, the Beast out of the Earth, is designed to accomplish.
For example, the Watchtower interprets the "two horns" as a fabricated world power (Anglo-American). This turns the "Revelation: It's Grand Climax at Hand" book into an idol. Because the truth is purposely hidden by teaching a false doctrine. Whether they admit it or not the Watchtower teaches that that book is Scripture. All idols are always designed to weed out lovers of truth there isn't any other purpose. Organized crime doesn't operate on nobility, but chaos. They havegreat incentive to expose the truth tellers so that they can be removed from the population. Leaving behind the perfect army of drones to rule the planet with.
I believe Revelation 13:11 is a riddle, as is the whole Book of Revelations. The wordage is purposefully vague such as "two horns like a lamb but speaks like a dragon." IMO, this is describing a goat which would explain why the Watchtower has an image planted into the minds of their members of the Beast out of the Earth having scales and a tail. Because they don't want them solving the riddle, because that would be truth and not a lie. Meaning they are worshipping God instead of an idol. John 10 describes a pen of sheep where admittance is given only to those who go through the gate.
10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep.
If anyone has ever been around goats, they ricochet off of things very well. Because of this they are regarded as master escape artists. In John 10 it says that anyone who climbs in a different way is considered a theif and a robber. Just like if you used a tree to ricochet over a fence into private property. You would be trespassing no matter how clever your attempt. That's exactly what the Watchtower is, tresspassers and they will be dealt with as such. Just as ancient Babylon threw the Three Jews into the furnace, so they will be thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur.
-Sab
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The Stone the Builders Rejected
by sabastious inin the first post in this series i discussed the identity of the watchtower as per revelation 13. the second post dealt with the identity of the harlot and the scarlet beast.
this post will deal with the third element "the image of the beast", lets read revelation 13:15-17:.
the second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
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sabastious
Oh, so this person couldn't possibly exist?
Hypothetical: Logic.
a. (of a proposition) highly conjectural; not well supported by available evidence. b. (of a proposition or syllogism) conditional.Of course this person could exist, there is just not well supported evidence available. Which means the best way to speak about this person would be in symbol, metaphor and hypothetical.
Getting back on topic I wanted to speak about another Biblical connection to the Image of the Beast of Revelation 13 and that's the story of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. Now I do not believe that these people are literal, but written to represent an entire group of people during the Babylonian Exile who were faithful to the One True God. Daniel 3 has the King of Babylon proclaiming to the world to bow down and worship an image:
4 Then the herald loudly proclaimed, “Nations and peoples of every language, this is what you are commanded to do: 5 As soon as you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, you must fall down and worship the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. 6 Whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into a blazing furnace.”
Babylon considered itself the empire of the world and therefore asks for nations and peoples of all languages to worship their idol under penalty of a fiery furnace. They were making an attempt to usurp the throne of God by getting total devotion and worship. People who create idols understand that they don't do anything, they just sit there. The feat of strength is to get the masses to bow down to it thinking they are worshipping a god when in fact they are worshipping a man and an empire. The Three Jews however refuse to worship it. Just like in Revelation 13 the image was purposefully erected as a loyalty test to expose truth loving Jews and kill them.
16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.”
Most everyone knows where the story goes from here. God saves the Jews from the fire prepared specifically for them because of their faith. The Jews have had to deal with being forced to worship idols since their inception and the Watchtower Society is no different a foe. They too are interested in getting Spiritual Jews to worship an idol and use fear of spiritual death to assert their dominion over the earth. That's why they scower the planet searching for lovers of truth because they want to get them to bow down and do acts of worship to idols which will alienate them from their God.
Babylon's ultimate fate will be shared by the Watchtower and all false prophets when their great city falls into oblivion. Revelation 18 fortells this:
17 “‘Woe! Woe to you, great city, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet, and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls! In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!’
The image set up by the king of Babylon was pure gold. That was the allure that was used to get the worship which is similar to the way the Harlot is clothed. She is extravagant and all the merchants of the world love her because they become rich off her luxuries. Yet, in "one hour" her wealth will be brough to ruin. She, along with the Watchtower Society, will share the fate of ancient Babylon.
25 “This is the inscription that was written:
mene, mene, tekel, parsin
26 “Here is what these words mean:
Mene: God has numbered the days of your reign and brought it to an end.
27 Tekel: You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting.
28 Peres: Your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.”
29 Then at Belshazzar’s command, Daniel was clothed in purple, a gold chain was placed around his neck, and he was proclaimed the third highest ruler in the kingdom.
30 That very night Belshazzar, king of the Babylonians, was slain, 31 and Darius the Mede took over the kingdom, at the age of sixty-two.
With the age of the internet in full swing, everybody can see the writing on the wall.
-Sab
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The Stone the Builders Rejected
by sabastious inin the first post in this series i discussed the identity of the watchtower as per revelation 13. the second post dealt with the identity of the harlot and the scarlet beast.
this post will deal with the third element "the image of the beast", lets read revelation 13:15-17:.
the second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
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sabastious
So he would have to answer every question and problem before he showed that right?
In the hypothetical, the evidence is apparent for all to see.
So, since problems will exist for the whole of human existence, how would you know he can solve all of them?
It would be the same set of recurring problems. There would be no new problems, only old ones. Theoretically we could learn all the solutions too, but we'd have to try out each one as they came by. Which would mean taking his advice consistantly. After taking the advice a few times and seeing that he was 100% correct you would then develop a trust. Like if a doctor kept giving the correct diagnosis and treatment plan over and over. At first you may have been skeptical, but eventually you turn into a believer.
His answers could be telling people to harm themselves? Doesn't seem like much a guy to follow.
If you could provide a solution with better results that would mean you had an answer he didn't which cannot happen. His solution would be the best and he'd be able to demonstrate that superiority making you the inquirer and him the solver.
Clearly, your questions are just meant to stump. For a second there I thought you were engaging in honest discussion.
-Sab
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The Stone the Builders Rejected
by sabastious inin the first post in this series i discussed the identity of the watchtower as per revelation 13. the second post dealt with the identity of the harlot and the scarlet beast.
this post will deal with the third element "the image of the beast", lets read revelation 13:15-17:.
the second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
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sabastious
By what right would this person rule?
They would have no innate right to rule.
Why would having all the answers entitle him to rule?
There would be no entitlement because that would imply a default position. This kingship would be determined by the evidence that the king knows best while no one else does.
Answers to what?
The problems.
Why would it necessarily be for your own good? What if the answers are bad for you?
Any answer would require adequate explanation (no secrets). If the answer was bad for the person asking then that person would be adequately informed as to why it's the best course of action despite the negative effects.
-Sab
