Posts by sabastious

162

AAWA has caused divisions and has lost the opportunity to be effective

by NoRegrets in

here's the thing,.

the whole aawa idea had noble ideas behind it, but the ship has sailed and the movement needs to go back to the drawing board.

period.

sabastious

Sebastious. Now you're just getting boring and tiresome. Please show me where I have been a ruthless dictator and tyrant - or are you just bleating on because some crappy post you made got removed and now you can't let it go or else you heard it from someone else with a grudge and figured you'd just believe it because thinking things for yourself is just too difficult.

OK, but rather than digging up posts, many of which were deleted BY YOU, I will simply paraphrase my observations while on this forum for the past few years. You control the behaviours of others on this forum by deleting and restricting members based off whims and not following your own guidelines (as you have demonstrated in this conversation with me several times). You control information by locking and deleting threads based on your own bias while discouraging, moderating and even banning certain posting styles. You are loose on actioning people who are more like you and tight on one's who are not. This also contributes to the control of information as it controls the forum population and hence the content. You look the other way when people you like use ruthless means to drive away certain posters you don't like. All of this creates a culture of fear of displeasing the top level personality and his favored companions who all put their feet up like they own the place. Instead of typing what people think, the users must censor themselves for fear of social, and even official, reprimand. You promote and encourage logical thinking and discipline emotional reaction rather than approaching the core issues of the disturbance.

This is a common phenomenon for leaders of any media outfit such as a Newspaper. JWN and it's leadership is not immune. You are merely on a long list of editors, presidents and CEO's that sit atop a power structure that exists off the quality of columnists and readers moreso than the quality of the leadership and administration. What these dictators fail to appreciate is that the organization is empowered by the creative genius of artists. They mistake their administrative procedures for their product which in turn puts them out of touch with their consumer end. Without humble and grounded leadership the entire structure corrupts and disintegrates.

If you continue this, you WILL be deleted then you will have what you seem to desire.

It wouldn't be much difference as my posting has already been highly restricted without being given a reason despite asking for one via PM. I guess I am supposed to be thankful for what you give me, eh? A stick in the eye and silence. Nonetheless, if you delete me, that will be YOUR choice and it will prove my claim publicly of your tyranny. Until you realize it's YOU who are causing the problem, this forum will continue to degrade.

Do you realize the heavy responsibility of managing a bunch of ex cult members? Do you see yourself as some sort of expert? All I see is a bullheaded man who pays the bills and demands we all live under the rules of "his house."

-Sab

162

AAWA has caused divisions and has lost the opportunity to be effective

by NoRegrets in

here's the thing,.

the whole aawa idea had noble ideas behind it, but the ship has sailed and the movement needs to go back to the drawing board.

period.

sabastious

Excuse me for hijacking the thread back from Sabastious, but -
I'm finally going to weigh in here. Other than making a smartass comment or two, I havent said anything about this entire AAWA thing. No one really cares what I have to say about anything anyway, so why bother... but I'm gonna say it anyway and y'all can ignore it, flame it, like it, hate it. Don't give a shit. It's my opinion.
Ever since the first thread that announced the AAWA, my spidey sense started tingling. Not sure why, I didn't expect it to blow up into the mess it did. But I had reservations about a group of ex-JWs creating a legal entity in order to fight the WTS. I saw some well respected names on the list of the founding group, so I hoped it might be a well run deal (how'd that work out?), but to me, our dealings with the WTS, its doctrines, the local elders, our JW family are personal fights and dealings. We each have to face our obstacles and do what we think is right for us personally. Some can be out front and flying the aposate flag with pride...others have to be coy and secretive, undermining the WTS authority from within, not to crush the Empire, but to free one or two people only.
Face it. You're not going to bring down a 7 million person strong religion. You have to do what you can do to free yourself, your mate, best friend, parents, children. That, and the fact that I dont' want or need some group representing me is why I never took to the idea, nor gave thought of aligning myself with them in any kind of way. I'm a guerilla fighter. And my fight is for personal gain...my family. For no other reason and once I win that battle, the war is over for me.
And as we all know, the more 'in your face' you are about the misdealings, and screwups, and screwed up doctrines you are about the WTS, the more you drive the sheeple under their protective cloak. Being out front, taking the fight to them does not help my family. It only gives them a persecution complex that makes it harder for me to undermine on the sly.
I think more harm is done to the WTS by forums like this, where ideas and experiences are shared. Websites like JWFacts where factual information about the WTS is available for anyone to view it...without it being forced down their throat. Until a JW wants to question and see the information for themselves, they aren't going to look. But when they are ready, it's great to find a wealth of information on the 'net, without a provactive and antagonistic force trying to lead the way.
My opinion, for what it's worth.
Carry on...

Hello Undercover, I understand where you are coming from. I too have a family inside who I want to see the light. I have been through a rigorous trial and error process which has been indescribably painful for all parties involved. Throughout this process I slowly became aware of the core issue which is the Watchtower mind control process. My entire family was subject to this from birth. The negative behavioral effects of the Watchtower cult on my family are relatively easy to identity. I don't blame them, I blame the system they were forcibly subject to from birth. The Watchtower keeps their adherents in a state of extreme denial. This can ONLY be achieved by a finely crafted system of mind control. My entire family is the result of someone being defrauded long before they came into the world. I can trace all blame back the Watchtower. I am not blaming people, I am blaming a destructive system that people created and continue to improve upon.

The "system of things" is the Watchtower System of Mind Control! It is fine tuned to create a perpetual supply of worshipping sheep who have pockets to pick. I'm sure you have seen the Governing Body turning up the heat on our families as of late. Their new product line will come with even worse side effects. This is a hostage situation, there's no other way to look at it. They are feeding the minds of their youth with incredibly potent mind control. They fully understand that people like you go undercover and try to get their family back. They have you taken care of, my friend. How much success have you had in getting your family back, so far? You might awaken one person at the cost of solidifying the programming in many others. They are like the Joker in Batman making us choose between the people we love. I don't negotiate with terrorists.

Individuals work, but there has to be something heavier or else the Watchtower is going to end up with a legion of mind controlled maniacs. They are and always will be a trauma based mind control cult who prey on the minds and bodies of children. They work tireslessly against you, undercover, with an army of volunteers. It's time to fight fire with fire, at least that's the way I see it.

-Sab

162

AAWA has caused divisions and has lost the opportunity to be effective

by NoRegrets in

here's the thing,.

the whole aawa idea had noble ideas behind it, but the ship has sailed and the movement needs to go back to the drawing board.

period.

sabastious

I apologise for the name calling. Sometimes it's not easy to keep 100% calm and reasonable when some idiot obsessive jerk is poking you in the face.

You are going against posting guideline number 1. Does that mean you have to temp ban yourself? I'm glad I got your attention.

So you're saying YOUR responsible then? Also, next month hosting bill is coming up soon ... can I forward it for your attention? LOL

I am responsible for what I post, yes, as are you. I don't hold you responsible for what I post, however. My point was that just because you host this software doesn't give you authority over the intellectual rights of what is posted. However, you DO have every right to act like a ruthless dictator, or you can be a decent human being, up to you. It's not ME who made YOUR reputation of tyranny, that was all you, buddy. You made your bed, now sleep in it. No reason to whine about people naturally reacting to oppression and bullying. "When injustice becomes law resistance becomes duty." I'm all out of aphorisms.

-Sab

162

AAWA has caused divisions and has lost the opportunity to be effective

by NoRegrets in

here's the thing,.

the whole aawa idea had noble ideas behind it, but the ship has sailed and the movement needs to go back to the drawing board.

period.

sabastious

I'm such a tyrannical moderator that ... well, people like you who are a constant PITA are allow to not only disagree with me but insult and attack me on my own site? Kind of takes the wind right out of your argument doesn't it?

Attack you? For stating your obvious hypocrisy? You're in no position to call out Cedars for deleting comments. I also suggest you look up the definition of ad hominem. Look, here's a good example:

Now, this topic is not about me. Any more off-topic comments you make will be removed. Yeah ... don't think I'm too naive not to moderate idiots when it's required because I'm afraid some obsessive jerk will think they have an excuse to run off screaming 'hypocrite'.

And this isn't your forum, it's all of ours. Whoever has contributed to the CONTENT is part owner since they own intellectual rights to what they create.

Oh, and Sebastious ... don't you ever consider the possibility that I KNOW I have made mistakes and because of what I've learnt feel that I just may be able to offer other people some advice so that they don't make the same ones?

The Governing Body want me to forgive their mistakes too.

-Sab

162

AAWA has caused divisions and has lost the opportunity to be effective

by NoRegrets in

here's the thing,.

the whole aawa idea had noble ideas behind it, but the ship has sailed and the movement needs to go back to the drawing board.

period.

sabastious

Sorry you feel that way. We try to moderate as little as possible but sometimes it's necessary to keep a site healthy and civil, especially when people get a little heated or take things too far. I don't think it's the same as covering things up though.

Nothing to do with feelings. Your reign of tyrannical moderation has been painfully obvious. When people stand up, you cut them off or neuter their posting abilities. Reminds me of an organization I used to be involved with. Go put some clothes on, emperor.

-Sab

162

AAWA has caused divisions and has lost the opportunity to be effective

by NoRegrets in

here's the thing,.

the whole aawa idea had noble ideas behind it, but the ship has sailed and the movement needs to go back to the drawing board.

period.

sabastious

This is the internet people, you can't just pretend that things didn't happen by deleting the comments!

Take your own advice, hypocrite.

-Sab

39

My View and Bobby Dylan's View of AntiWatchtower Special Groups

by Band on the Run in

jw
friends

my computer crashed so i am not fully informed of the recent antiwatchtower organization.

i must vent, however.

perhaps i am the only one on the face of the earth (or the entire universe) but i found cedar's opening announcement insulting.

sabastious

If you have a problem with cedars personally, wouldn't an effective approach be to take it up with cedars personally?

Didn't a certain Jewish Revolutionary allegedly have something to say about that?

15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.

-Sab

14

Jehovah's Witnesses in Southern Russia Face New Charges

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20130408/180515407.htm.

rostov-on-don, april 8 (ria novosti) prosecutors in the southern russian city of taganrog have charged 16 jehovah's witnesses with taking part in the activities of an extremist organization after they allegedly resurrected the banned local branch of the international religious organization.. according to investigators, the religious groups followers continued to hold regular meetings after their local branch was banned in the city in 2009. at the meetings, they allegedly incited hatred against other religions, circulated extremist literature and called for military draft dodging.. the suspects also attempted to involve children in their activities and collected money for the organization, the prosecutors said in a statement.. the case materials will be sent to the taganrog city court after the suspects are informed of the charges, the statement said.. the jehovah's witnesses organization, which has more than seven million followers worldwide, including over 130,000 in russia, has been banned in a number of russian regions and in some former soviet republics over its religious beliefs.. the jehovah's witnesses branch in the russian capital was dissolved by a district court ruling in 2004, but the european court of human rights declared the decision illegal in 2010.. .

sabastious

Russia doesn't want the Witnesses in their country because they compete with them as a dictatorship.

-Sab

447

Problems with the "Bogus AWAA Fan Page"..

by OUTLAW in

good afternoon jwn... .

i`ve spent the morning and part of my afternoon... getting to the bottom of... why names were added to the awaa fan page... it`s a dangerous thing to happen in our world... faders can be outed,we can lose,family,friends... the results can be an absolute disaster... .

aawa "did not" create the facebook awaa fan page.

sabastious

And some of us have said we don't care about the group itself one way or the other, or necessarily think the idea behind it is an awful idea...but we are disheartened by the arrogance and refusal to "make it right"...I only care about them rectifying the privacy issue and removing all of those they have inconvenienced or put at risk who did not consent to membership to their group, and sticking with laws and ethics in the future.

Hello fizzywiglet, I think you are being unreasonable and hyperbolic. You are correct that creating a non profit organization is a heavy responsibilty, one that the Watchtower so expertly averts at the cost of countless lives of the innocent, namely children. The Watchtower operates under the pseudonym "faithful and discreet slave class". As a "theological arrangement" they are immune to any action against them personally. Steven Unthank had to craft from scratch a religious manifesto in order to even have a chance. People don't mess with religion because you are fighting a shadow. What you accuse AAWA of the Watchtower employs in spades. Focus on the culprit, not the resistance to it.

The way in which the world works is fixed. What's spoiled by man's err is made good again by man's work. What do you think was going through the minds of the people who set up public drinking fountains for specific ethnicities? What about the person driving the bus where Rosa Parks refused to sit in the back? What exactly IS IT that changes the canvas of life where people stop and really look at what they are doing and then change? The answer is activism which is always aggressively persued. You bring up ethics like you invented them. AAWA was founded with ethics in mind. They are Rosa Parks. When some choose to stand up, they are ALWAYS met with opposition. It's simply the way it works. You can choose to be part of the problem, or the solution to it. Up to you.

-Sab

44

Being honest & fair, can you think of anything that the Watchtower does that's beneficial to the public?

by Theocratic Sedition in

jw
friends

i'm curious, as where i reside there's about to be a major brouhaha over the tax exempt status of a major player in this area.

reading and hearing the arguments from both sides conjured thoughts about the tax exempt status of religions and the arguments associated with that issue.

a significant portion of the arguments related to that issue center around how a tax exempt organization benefits it's community.

sabastious

The Watchtower is a scourge on society. The only reason why they have been so successful in getting people off of street drugs is because religion is a replacement drug. Similarly, in 1880 cocaine was used as a cure for alcholism and addiction to opium [1] . The doctors of the day had great success with getting people to stop drinking because they were just exchanging their patients addictions. That's why when people leave the Watchtower they often revert back to their old habbits. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that this is because they have the "truth", but what they really have is an extremely powerful drug. Much more so than any substance in existence: fundamentalist religion.

-Sab