There is nothing wrong with my cognitive ability. And what I said was true. Before your last post you had ignored friggin for three pages worth of banter and bickering with other people. And please check my previous post again. When I saw and read your reply I edited what I said to give you credit.
dandingus
JoinedPosts by dandingus
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168
Jehovah correcting the organization
by sabastious inread the account of moses taking the credit for the water provision miracle and that of king david's folly and his consequences.. ...read them.... ...you are still reading.... ...ok now you have that fresh in your mind.. jehovah had a correctional arrangement in place for all his spokesmen.
story of jonah would work great too.
the point being that in the bible god has always had this correctional arrangement for the leaders of his earthly organization.. that being said, where did that arrangement go?
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168
Jehovah correcting the organization
by sabastious inread the account of moses taking the credit for the water provision miracle and that of king david's folly and his consequences.. ...read them.... ...you are still reading.... ...ok now you have that fresh in your mind.. jehovah had a correctional arrangement in place for all his spokesmen.
story of jonah would work great too.
the point being that in the bible god has always had this correctional arrangement for the leaders of his earthly organization.. that being said, where did that arrangement go?
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dandingus
Does anyone else know why Alice is slinging mud with you guys but wont have a decent talk with me? I just would like her to address my questions.
Figgin,
It seems to me that she doesn't actually have any answers for you. She has ignored you over and over (which is rude), sidesteps the issue by going somewhere else with the discussion, or just gives you a non-answer that doens't address what you asked. I think she refuses to acknowledge your questions because (and this is my opinion) I don't think she wants to process the ramifications of what you're asking. As I say, that's my opinion.
I find this thread interesting otherwise. I've enjoyed the exchange between you and sabastious. It's provoked some thought on my part and that's always welcomed!
EDITED: After I posted this comment, she did in fact respond (sort of) to your first question (Why does the WT spend time teaching "iffy" points instead on focusing primarilly on what matters... Jesus' message.). Sorry Alice, if I didn't give you enough time to put your answer together. But there are more questions to go, and he has good points with alot of them. I look forward to reading what you HONESTLY think about them (Outlaws observations about your honesty notwithstanding).
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96
What "invisible" persons do you actually firmly believe in?? (and Why?)
by Terry inimagine that!.
invisible persons!.
from ancient times some of us have imagined there to be living persons that can't be seen but that are more than real!.
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dandingus
Leo, I personally agree with you that Michio is awesome! Don't know about "sexy" though. I am a straight guy afterall. But I really like his books (I have Hyperspace, Beyond Einstein, and Physics of the Impossible) and think he's a great author and just an all around really neat guy.
As for the thread question, I'm kind of undecided. I agree with sabastious to a large extent that there may be other kinds of life in existence, but that doesn't necessarily mean that those life forms are "invisible". But then again, they may be?!
I think I've said this before, but my philosophy regarding most "invisible" beings (including god) is that I cannot prove that they exist, but neither can I prove that they do not exist. I can choose to believe one way or another, but I cannot PROVE it. And so while I personally leave open the possibility of their existence, I reserve a rather large dose of skepticism.
Maybe that doesn't make me a good candidate to even respond to this thread? Because you were looking for people who "actually firmly believe in" invisible persons, and I don't. I wanted to reply to what Leolaia said, but I thought it was rude to not even acknowledge the thread's purpose when I posted. So please excuse me if my answer is not a satisfactory fulfillment of your request.
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31
The goodbye I got from a Witness "friend"
by Eiben Scrood inso i decided to look up an old witness friend on facebook.
he accepted my friend request but a few hours later he sent me this message:.
it seems to me that things with you have simply gone further astray.
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dandingus
That sucks, Eiben. (love your name, by the way)
Did your friend know you weren't active before he accepted you? Did you try to convince your friend that the witnesses don't have the truth, or question any specific doctrine in any message to that individual? Or was it just sort of 'random' that he bashed you that way? Just wondering.
I know how you feel. I got a similar message last year from an old and very dear friend who is still a Witness. Depending how close you were, this kind of thing can really hurt. And it's so unjustified. At least it was in my case.
My friend was the one who contacted me, saying that she missed my friendship (we hadn't spoken for a while since before I left) and wanted to get back in touch. We had one or two email exchanges consisting mainly of small-talk. Then the conversation got turned into a whole argument trying to plead for my soul, complete with scare tactics and guilt trips. When it didn't work out as intended, I get a final email saying that I'm dangerous to her faith and that "to protect myself...I will not associate with you anymore". I personally never said ANYTHING about the organization to her, or made ANY comments about God, religion, doctrine, etc. The whole thing made me incredibly indignant.
I agree with lesterd, and in fact I've thought and said something similar about many witnesses I know, even when I was one myself:
they mouth the words but do not get the sense of what they are saying
Amazing...
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18
Despite your reservations with being a JW, did you ever sometimes felt like you accomplished something in field service?
by miseryloveselders ini've got my fair share of things that irritate me to no end regarding this religion.
however, i have to be fair.
i got up this morning, and for some reason i didnt feel overwhelmingly negative about what i was getting ready to do.
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dandingus
Yes, miseryloveselders. I did every so often feel that my ministry served a useful and helpful purpose. But then, I always approached it very differently than almost everyone else I knew. There were many, many days when I would take nothing with me to the door except the bible and just offer to read a few verses or give a "thought for the day" or something. There were times I came across greiving people, or people who were struggling with their religion's interpretation of something and I really took the time to have actual conversations with them. There were some occasions when friends of mine would like working with me in service because I could have 1 or 2 calls that would take half the morning or more. And I would go out at odd times. Talk to convenience store clerks at 3:00 AM and such. I was a pioneer for 6 years, so I always was looking for ways to make service feel more like I was actually accomplishing something and less like a chore. I can honestly say that I did my best. Of course, that wasn't all the time. There were many days that it was a chore, or that I took it a little easier and wasn't on top of my game to be able to put that much effort into it. But I was there for people on many occasions and often felt good about myself for putting forth the effort when it happened.
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115
Are Men As "Manly" As They Used To Be?
by minimus inmaybe it's me but i see more males act less "manly".
i dunno..
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dandingus
Are Men As "Manly" As They Used To Be?
I know I am. In fact, I'm even MORE manly now than I used to be!
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Most Ridiculous Thing You've Ever Been Counseled On
by MrFreeze ini'm sure topics like this have already come up but they tend to get hilarious with the absolute absurdity that goes on in the kh.
i was once counseled for not shaving after two days.
i was also counseled by a sister for eating lucky charms cereal.
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dandingus
Was counseled for:
Listening to rock music. (I think it was Metallica at the time.) I'm still a metal head.
Telling a young lady her dress looked nice. Apparently the comment "made her feel uncomfortable". Whatever. I was just trying to be nice. Wasn't interested in her at ALL.
Being late for a meeting for service.
Mispronouncing a word as the watchtower reader (which I almost never did). In fact I used to pick up on others' mistakes, which is probably why they made a big deal about it when I got one wrong.
Holding my girlfriend's hand. Laying side by side with her in my back yard, talking (not holding hands or even touching). Not getting engaged to her fast enough. Pretty much everything about my being with someone back then.
Staying up too late talking with friends in the hotel lobby during a District Convention.
Hair too long.
Even got counseled once for turning down an invitation to go somewhere because I said I couldn't afford it. I was a Regular Pioneer at the time and I COULDN'T afford it. But the elder said I "shouldn't go around all the time poor mouthing". Almost everyone in my congregation was rich or at least had a little money so apparently they didn't like being showed up for their materialistic ways by someone who was actually doing what they only said they wanted to. Grrr......
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Newly Exiting JW's ( Last 5 years ) How are you Doing in Life? Let Us Know
by flipper inconsidering the fact we've had so many newbies here i thought it would be good to just open it up to you folks to see how life is going for you since you exited the witnesses ?
it's hard many times to move on- however with lots of ex-witnesses on the board here who have been through similar experiences - perhaps those of us who have been out awhile can give you someideas on how to move on in your post jw life to make it a little easier .
so fire away newbies and recently exited jw 's.
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dandingus
Worked all night on a floor stripping job - so finally back after a nap ! LOL !
I've done that before, Mr. Flipper. It IS hard work! Nap when you need it brother. And thanks for this thread! I enjoyed reading everyone else's life experiences. It's helpful to know that other people out there are dealing with these things too.
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91
Newly Exiting JW's ( Last 5 years ) How are you Doing in Life? Let Us Know
by flipper inconsidering the fact we've had so many newbies here i thought it would be good to just open it up to you folks to see how life is going for you since you exited the witnesses ?
it's hard many times to move on- however with lots of ex-witnesses on the board here who have been through similar experiences - perhaps those of us who have been out awhile can give you someideas on how to move on in your post jw life to make it a little easier .
so fire away newbies and recently exited jw 's.
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dandingus
Well it's been a little more than 5, but not by much. It's been an interesting couple of years, and an emotional roller-coaster in many ways. "How I am doing in life" has changed several times during those years. Before I brought myself to leave lots of things had happened to bring me to that moment, and many of them I am still dealing with the effects of even now after all these years.
For almost two years before I left and shortly after, I was nursing my sick and dying mother and taking care of my youngest brother who was still in school. My mom eventually did recover from her illness, but it was a very close call for a while and multiple doctors had not given her long. During all this I was still a Ministerial Servant with a part on every meeting and about 6 jobs in the congregation. I was also a Regular Pioneer who was trying to keep up that schedule while working to support the family and taking care of my mom. It was such a trying time. The emotional pain was intense, and it was taking its toll. Right when I needed my witness friends the most, they each found convenient excuses to not be able to talk to me or do anything with me for months on end, or in a few cases ended up turning on my like vipers. My elders were only interested in why I wasn't getting all my jobs done at the Kingdom Hall on a regular basis. It didn't matter to them that I was trying so hard and was getting burned out. So in an attempt to make new friends (even if they weren't on my continent) I saved all my extra money, and traveled overseas to stay with some witnesses I had met at an international convention and had talked with online for a while. It was nice for a few days, but while I was there a misunderstanding ensued, and my "friends" threw me out. For three days I wandered the streets of a foreign city with no money. I spoke the language enough for basic conversations, but was so hurt I didn't want to talk to anyone anyway. I just sort of waited for the plane to take me back to the states. I sat down in an alley one night, crying. I cried out to Jehovah, as you would expect. And was met with silence, as you would expect. My faith had been waning for some time already. At that point though, it was utterly shattered, and I very nearly lost my mind. I never really came back from that country. I left the organization as much for my own sanity as anything (or what was left of it at the time, which wasn't much). Leaving was a way to run away from the pain, the betrayal, the false-promises and false-hopes. If it was all lies anyway, I figured I had nothing to lose.
At first it was a complete shock to the system to walk out and (almost) never go back. I just kept myself busy for a while. I went out to bars for a little bit. I was enjoying the novelty of a different kind of life, and ended up doing a lot of things I had never done before. I also found a nice girl whom I've been in a relationship with now for several years. It didn't seem like it was that long since I had left, but the months then the years started ticking by.
For a while I was in denial about the emotional pain I took with me. Then about 2 years ago it hit like a locomotive. I was nearly paralyzed by it for several months as I tried to sort it all out. Memories came flooding back for things I had just pushed aside and never properly dealt with. It was not pretty. In retrospect I know that at that point I needed counseling, but I didn't receive it. So I dealt with it the best I could.
My faith has been the biggest casualty of all, but I have gained freedom in many ways. Sometimes, it's been a little lonely. I never really had a lot of friends to begin with, and like so many others, leaving the organization also meant leaving behind almost everyone I ever knew. I also lost the woman I loved, partially though elders' meddling and partially through my own stupidity. I gave up something beautiful to go chasing a mirage, and that was my fault. Fortunately, I was able to find someone again. I consider it the highest irony of all that my girlfriend's name is "Faith". There are days even now when I miss certain people who were a big part of my life for so long, even if they hurt me, which some did.
SD-7 said it as well and as poetically as it could be said:
There are days, like today, when I feel that freedom alone is not enough. There's still a huge vacuum that needs to be filled with something meaningful.
I do have freedom now, but I also have no direction and no faith in god or man. I do what I want, not what somebody tells me to do. But what do you do when you don't really know what you want? At this point, I am more than a little lost.
But on the positive side, my family is happy and healthy. My mother and brother both left when I did, and my other brother had already left previously. So at least the religion isn't tearing at my family at the moment as it is with others. My grandparents, some aunts and uncles are still witnesses and won't talk to me, but my immediate family is there for me and that is a blessing I do not undervalue.
Also, I am rediscovering myself to a large degree. Personality traits that I had when I was a child which were repressed or replaced by witness training have begun to re-emerge. I always had an ornery streak and a wicked since of humor, but there are ways of thinking and feeling about myself and about life that were there, then weren't, and now are again. I had almost forgotten that I was ever any other person besides the 'witness-me'. This aspect of being out is almost completely positive. It's been an adventure of sorts, and I sometimes wonder who I would have been if I had never become a Witness. Maybe I'm getting a little glimpse of that now. I think I'm more healthy now mentally and in other ways than I have ever been, but that distinction has been hard earned.
So how am I doing in life? Well, some days I laugh, some days I cry, and some days I even do both. I've learned that the sun will shine tomorrow with or without me, so I may as well try to enjoy it...
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Who Are Your Past Circuit Overseers? It's a small world..
by mentallyfree31 inwho were your past circuit overseers?
i'm sure a lot of us actually know mutual people, as the co's relocate all over the country.. here's a few from the southeast us: (let me know if you recognize any names and post yours too please...).
ellwood johnson (new york/philadelphia area for several years also).
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dandingus
We had a CO by the name of Magnusson in the early 80's. Not sure if he was the same guy.
Keyser - I remember a Magnusson in my circuit as well. Late 80's I think. Could be the same guy as you and 'Wasanelder Once' I guess.
We also had in the 80's, 90's, and early 00's (as far as I can remember):
- Robert Hahn (I think that was his first name)
- Robert Archibald
- Bill Nichols (I think that was his first name. I'm pretty damn sure he went by "Billy Kim".)
There were others I can't recall at the moment. If they occur to me I'll post again.