Posts by jordan12

42

Turning in time?

by crazy2try in

jw
friends

i have a problem.

my hubby and i are tying to fade out completely, but we ran into a snag.

my in-laws showed up with a stack of time slips and said that they will turn them in for us if we fill them out.

jordan12

Ad hominem isn't necessary in order to make a point. I know it is the Watchtower way but get over that please if you want to have productive conversations here.

You don't know what an ad hominem is. Ad hominem means saying that an argument is invalid because of who makes it. As for productive conversations here, I've already seen what sort of a place this is. I'm not stupid.

As for the implication that fading is dishonest, Theocratic Warfare Strategy teaches us that some people do not deserve the truth and that it is perfectly ok to lie to them to protect the spirituality of ourselves and others.

So it's OK to do it because you thing the Watch Tower does it? That's a bizarre and contradictory argument from someone who rejects Jehovah's Witnesses' teachings as a moral authority.

You are also misrepresenting what The Watchtower has said about Theocratic War strategy.

Fading does that.

Fading is for people who don't have the courage of their own convictions. Jehovah's Witnesses have endured all sorts of persecution rather than deny who they are and what they believe in. That's real courage and real honesty I would say.

Many stay in the borg because of the threat of shunning by family and friends and with the hope of enlightening others to the truth.

I'm sorry but I don't know what the "borg" is. You are so brainwashed by boards like this that you can't even use proper terminology. As for "enlightening others to the truth", well I've never seen so many lies in one place as I have on this board.

The victims of the cult have been lied to for almost a century and a half and indoctrinated to avoid and shun the blunt honesty your post would seem

to recommend. Fudging a time sheet (which rank and file Dubs already do all the time) isn't an unforgivable sin when the intention is fading and

helping others escape the borg.

First of all, what's with the "dubs" thing? Can't you use a respectful term? You would complain enough if Witnesses used a disrespectful term to refer to you. Two sets of weights?

Secondly, how exactly do you know that rank and file Witnesses "fudge" their reports?

Hey 5th generation, what sort of problems happened by continuing to report the family study? I'm at this point, too, and would like to know what to expect. Thanks.

Quit the lies and the double life and tell the congregation the truth. Go on, be a man!

42

Turning in time?

by crazy2try in

jw
friends

i have a problem.

my hubby and i are tying to fade out completely, but we ran into a snag.

my in-laws showed up with a stack of time slips and said that they will turn them in for us if we fill them out.

jordan12

Fill out fake time slips--this is yet another reason why I don't believe they actually have more than 7 million witlesses. You are going to have to fill out the slips. Report a moderate amount of time--too much, and you will be hounded for "privileges". Too little, you will be hounded to put in more field circus. Then, find some site to report the number of fake time slips you had to turn in so the actual number they publish can have them deducted from the accurate totals.

This comment is paradoxically a very honest admission of the commenter's untruthfulness and dishonesty and would be useful to bear in mind when evaluating how trustworthy his other posts are.

I say if you don't want to be a Witness you should do the honorable thing and tell the truth about it instead of remaining in the congregation as imposters on false pretenses.

3

Ministering Migrants

by Lekore in

i was just casting my mind back to when i would accompany my parents on the door-to-door work and remember that a considerable amount of return visits/calls were recent immigrants to the country who spoke little english.

once they found the country of origin they would immediately order literature in that language, despite that sometimes these people were just happy to read anything since they spoke little english.. it just reinforces my beliefs that they really prey on the most vulnerable members in society, maybe we should pamplet immigrants at airports to protect them from these people!.

anyone have similar experiences?.

jordan12

maybe we should pamplet immigrants at airports to protect them from these people!

Maybe you should get a life.

3

Please Comment on My Com to My JW Friend

by maputo95 in

please comment on my latest com with my jw friend who thinks every apostate left because they were doing wrong things themselves:it seems that every time we have a theological discussion or i comment on books written by ex-jws, you resort to extreme finger-pointing and judgmentalism against any church or organization that is not part of the watchtower movement.

i can understand why after a childhood of being informed by the wt you should do this.

firstly, the jw line is every 'apostate' is evil and has left the wt because he was sinning and couldn't live up to the 'high standards' of 'god's organisation on earth'.

jordan12

they often refuse to admit that proportionally, child abuse in Kingdom Halls matches or exceeds that found in the much larger Catholic Church.

It isn't true. That's quite a good reason to refuse to admit it.

If you have any solid proof at all, I want to see it.

3

Please Comment on My Com to My JW Friend

by maputo95 in

please comment on my latest com with my jw friend who thinks every apostate left because they were doing wrong things themselves:it seems that every time we have a theological discussion or i comment on books written by ex-jws, you resort to extreme finger-pointing and judgmentalism against any church or organization that is not part of the watchtower movement.

i can understand why after a childhood of being informed by the wt you should do this.

firstly, the jw line is every 'apostate' is evil and has left the wt because he was sinning and couldn't live up to the 'high standards' of 'god's organisation on earth'.

jordan12

There is no point in arguing with your jw friend, because he is brainwashed. Until he sees the truth about the "truth" for himself, he will continue to think that all apostates are sinners.

Just because someone disagrees with you, it doesn't mean they are brainwashed.

Yet experts say that the vast majority of children do not lie about sexual assault.

Indeed. So does Awake!: "Under normal circumstances children lack the experience or sophistication in sexual matters to invent explicit claims of abuse" (October 8, 1993)

As a matter of fact, it proves the Watchtower's warped viewpoint that victims, who are usually women and children, are not to be trusted.

False and ridiculous. The Watchtower has never said any such thing. Allegations that are not proved by two witnesses are not viewed as false or as true. They are viewed as what they are - unproven allegations.

I suspect you'd change your tune pretty quickly about required standards of evidence if it were you who were accused of rape.

Then, why doesn't the Watchtower instruct all elders to report suspected child moletation, whether or not they live in states where reporting is mandatory by law?

For any number of common-sense and legal reasons. Other religious organizations, child protection agencies, professional counselors' associations have exactly the same policy.

Funny that started when Bill Bowen and Barbara Anderson ent public with the Watchtower's dirty little secrets. And there ae statements made on this site quite regularly that bears out the exact opposite of what this article claims.

Demonstrably false. The elders' manual, published in 1991, says exactly the same thing. Witnesses to separate incidents are acceptable as proof. This was long before Bowen started his pathetic website telling obviously preposterous and stupid lies about Jehovah's Witnesses.

9

How to LIE by choosing words very very CAREFULLY

by Terry in

carefully chosen words.

deserve to be considered .

*** watchtower april 1, 1920, pp.99-104 ***.

jordan12

From Steve Hassan (The "I" of the BITE Model) re cults

Would that be the same Steve Hassan who believed in kidnapping members of religions he disagrees with, writing in one of his books: "Although the non-coercive approach will not work in every case, it has proved to be the option most families prefer. Forcible intervention can be kept as a last resort if all other attempts fail.”?

Would it be the same Steve Hassan who, according to the affadavit of Arthur Roselle, "aided, abetted and conspired in my kidnapping and false imprisonment ... physically held me captive in the first week of the kidnapping and false imprisonment"?

http://www.cesnur.org/2001/CAN/33/01.htm

56

Pedophiles in your congregation??

by ziddina in

i'm listening to the "six screens of the watchtower" broadcast from october 25, 2008 [yeah, i know, i'm waaay behind...], discussing pedophilia... that broadcast caused me to look up the current status of 'pedophilia notification' in the u.s.a..... rebel8 posted a link sometime back that gave locations of pedophiles in one's (u.s.a.) neighborhood... that portion of the link is, unfortunately, not working right now.... i decided to check out my [old] site, http://www.nsopw.gov/core/offendersearchcriteria.aspx to see if it still functioned the same way.... again, unfortunately, that site is also no longer giving out maps of one's area.... but, as pointed out in rebel8's posted link, pedophiles tend to move around.

this was also mentioned in the six screens broadcast by a lady named "lilly".... the new versions of both sites simply allow one to input the name of someone suspected to be a pedophile... not as effective, imo, but perhaps the cost of updating the maps due to pedophiles' high mobility became prohibitive.. so, here's my suggestion... using the 'name' search function, check out every name in .

your congregation, starting with the elders!!!.

jordan12

Sure, there are pedophiles in among Jw's, as there are in most any church group, and there likely IS a higher percentage per capita, than many other groups.

What evidence do you have for saying that there is a likely a higher percentage of pedophiles among JW's than other groups?

56

Pedophiles in your congregation??

by ziddina in

i'm listening to the "six screens of the watchtower" broadcast from october 25, 2008 [yeah, i know, i'm waaay behind...], discussing pedophilia... that broadcast caused me to look up the current status of 'pedophilia notification' in the u.s.a..... rebel8 posted a link sometime back that gave locations of pedophiles in one's (u.s.a.) neighborhood... that portion of the link is, unfortunately, not working right now.... i decided to check out my [old] site, http://www.nsopw.gov/core/offendersearchcriteria.aspx to see if it still functioned the same way.... again, unfortunately, that site is also no longer giving out maps of one's area.... but, as pointed out in rebel8's posted link, pedophiles tend to move around.

this was also mentioned in the six screens broadcast by a lady named "lilly".... the new versions of both sites simply allow one to input the name of someone suspected to be a pedophile... not as effective, imo, but perhaps the cost of updating the maps due to pedophiles' high mobility became prohibitive.. so, here's my suggestion... using the 'name' search function, check out every name in .

your congregation, starting with the elders!!!.

jordan12

The Jehovah's Witnesses, on the other hand, declare this new technology to be "of the Devil", and refuse to allow such technology to be "imposed" upon their right to "religious freedom"...

Really, when and where did they make that declaration?

In fact, they surreptitiously donated huge sums of money to the loosely-consolidated group opposed to the enactment of said law and emplacement of such technology...

I find it utterly bizarre that a statement like this can be left unchallenged. And people say that Witnesses can't think for themselves!

If you have evidence for such a ridiculous assertion, then present it.

56

Pedophiles in your congregation??

by ziddina in

i'm listening to the "six screens of the watchtower" broadcast from october 25, 2008 [yeah, i know, i'm waaay behind...], discussing pedophilia... that broadcast caused me to look up the current status of 'pedophilia notification' in the u.s.a..... rebel8 posted a link sometime back that gave locations of pedophiles in one's (u.s.a.) neighborhood... that portion of the link is, unfortunately, not working right now.... i decided to check out my [old] site, http://www.nsopw.gov/core/offendersearchcriteria.aspx to see if it still functioned the same way.... again, unfortunately, that site is also no longer giving out maps of one's area.... but, as pointed out in rebel8's posted link, pedophiles tend to move around.

this was also mentioned in the six screens broadcast by a lady named "lilly".... the new versions of both sites simply allow one to input the name of someone suspected to be a pedophile... not as effective, imo, but perhaps the cost of updating the maps due to pedophiles' high mobility became prohibitive.. so, here's my suggestion... using the 'name' search function, check out every name in .

your congregation, starting with the elders!!!.

jordan12

check out EVERY name in your congregation, STARTING with the elders!!!

Well, a month's gone by. Did anyone find any pedophile elders? I didn't notice anyone posting any names.

14

Swansea paedophile in 17-year barrage of child abuse

by behemot in

swansea paedophile in 17-year barrage of child abusesunday, march 21, 2010, 12:00a pensioner branded a "filthy paedophile" after being convicted of a barrage of sustained child abuse, which started over 43 years ago, has been jailed for 19 years.. gordon brian redmond was convicted at lewes crown court of 18 indecent assaults against children including six charges of rape and one charge of actual bodily harm.. the 72-year-old had already pleaded guilty to two charges of indecent assault against children.. the sexual offences took place while redmond, now of excelsior house, princess way, swansea, was living in brighton from 1967 to 1984. seventeen of the charges were sample counts examples of ongoing behaviour and offences.. the jury was unable to reach a verdict on a seventh charge of rape, and judge michael lawson qc ordered the charge to lie on file.. sentencing redmond, judge lawson said no sentence could truly reflect his actions.. "there is no mathematical calculation i can do that can match the harm that you have done with a certain number of years in custody," he said.. "nor can i undo the damage that has been done or bring peace and comfort to those who have suffered as a result of your selfish behaviour.".

redmond's sentence had to be determined according to the guidelines applicable at the time of the offences guidelines that judge lawson said reflected "an outdated view of serious offences".. redmond became a strict jehovah's witness in the 1970s and moved to a farm in pontyberem in 1984.. the offence of actual bodily harm took place in november 2006.. judge lawson paid tribute to the prosecution witnesses for their courage throughout the trial, particularly redmond's first victim.. "she has displayed a generosity of spirit throughout this trial that you do not deserve and which you never showed to your victims," he said.. prior to sentencing, defence barrister bernard richmond qc said his client was already enduring terrible punishment for his crimes.. "this rather proud, arrogant, cocky, difficult, bolshy, very full of himself, scary man, who everyone was supposed to look up to and admire, now stands in the dock as someone of very little money, no future, and with a reputation as a filthy paedophile," he said.. "he has been shunned by the jehovah's witnesses.

his wife, christine, has been forced to choose between her faith and her husband, and has chosen her faith.".

jordan12

While the congregation may NOW be shunning him; what did the elders do from the 1970s - 1984?
Exactly!

What makes you think that the elders or the congregation knew anything about the abuse? I see no indication in the article that they did.