yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
You are being unbelieveably dishonest here Cofty in quote mining what I said. This is not even remotely a surpise to me... or to the many others you have done this to.
And if you want to tell Loz she cannot agree with something anyone has said... then how about you go back and say the same thing to those who have agreed with you?
Off now...
Peace,
tammy
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
Thank you my sister. May you also have peace from our Lord.
Simon, I may have to go for a bit, as I have some things to do at home, and also have work this afternoon/evening. But I do want to want to and will answer your questions. I would ask and hope that you withhold judgment from what others SAY I believe and feel and do, until I can answer you myself, and honestly.
Peace,
tammy
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
Quote mining again Cofty?
As you can see I already changed that to address the opinions you express rather than you personally. I stand by my view of your beliefs and expressions but apologise for saying 'you' were vile for believing such things.
Thank you.
I do question why you show up here and try and bombard us with your nonsense. You're opinions are not really welcome and we don't enjoy the frustrating experience trying to reason with someone who can't stick to an argument or accept any logic and simply just resorts to "it's a mystery". Heck, you won't even acknowledge things based on what your god claims to have said in the bible.
Some don't want me here. Some do.
What am I supposed to do about that?
Why are you here exactly? Do the voices tell you which websites to visit?
I don't hear voices.
I am here because I found this place off jwfacts, same as a lot of people, and I had just ended my study... so I continued to research on the internet. Same as many people.
Do I think I was guided here? Yes, for whatever reason.
But at the time I just loved being here from the start; I loved this place, and the people here. I loved the discussions and debates. I felt part of this community, and I grew in my faith during my time here, just as some leave their faith or as some others grow in their faith. I share that faith also.
I have also been asked to stay by various members. Some of those who belong to my God ARE here. Maybe many. Maybe all. That is not my business. I am a servant of them also, though Christ and God first. If I can help them in any way, as they seek Him, then great. Even if just one.
Peace,
tammy
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
Thanks for admitting first that the bible writers weren't divinely inspired (you'd think god of all people would know how the solar system worked?) and also that you have a very, very limited knowledge of the bible. Have you actually even read it? It's fairly typical that the most vehement adherents are the least knowledgable about the bible and it's history.
I have read it many times. Enough that I know it does not claim itself to be inerrant. In fact, 'it' claims the opposite. Jeremiah 8:8, and the various times that Christ says, "Woe to you scribes". Scribes are the ones who write down the law, the histories, etc, etc, including the prophets and prophecies. Scribes are also translators.
The prophets are inspired. But that does not mean that everything written (or translated) is as it should be.
The story (in the bible) is that he stopped the day so his chosen people could continue their slaughter of those who simply had the misfortune to be born to non-chosen parents of a different race.
Yes, I know the story. I do not know if everything written in it is true.
Today we call it genocide, but you no doubt call such things "good".
No, I would not. Please stop assuming that I have such traits or that I would do something that I would NOT do.
Also, stopping the solar system would take vastly much more time and effort than just stopping one storm on one planet of the solar system. He can do the former to enable a slaughter but can't be arsed doing the latter to save innocent people, children and babies?
Like I said... I don't know about it. Of course, the person asking for that DID belong to God and did have the ear of God. The covenant was different with Israel also, than the covenant that we have through Christ. That covenant is for forgiveness of sins, for eternal life and a Kingdom.
Tell us more about this god of love you worship.
Look at and listen to Christ... and you will know also.
Peace,
tammy
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
Wow, you don't even know the crazy stories you base your warped beliefs on?
Tower of babel ring any bells?
I know the tower of babel story.
I don't base my faith on stories or upon the bible. But rather upon Christ.
The bible is not infallable. The bible is not inerrant. The bible is not the Word of God.
The bible is a witness (the accounts of several witnesses) that points TO the Word of God, who is Christ.
Christ is the only one who shows us His Father.
Not the bible.
Not man.
Not this world
Not nature.
Christ.
Peace,
tammy
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
Why are you adding into your summaries that 5 million people were displaced? That is a hardship... but big deal, in relation to THIS topic. Hardship and suffering are... again... part of this world. Why can you not wrap your mind around that? tec
Wow, you "love" comes through loud and clear. Weren't we supposed to know whether someone was a real follower or not by the love and empathy they showed to others? Simon
No. "The world will know that you are my disciples by the love you have for one another."
In relation to this topic... what Cofty has added to his list... is a harship and it is suffering. But it does not relate to the topic or point that he keeps emphasizing that he is making.
That doesn't mean you don't help those who are displaced, or homeless, or hungry, or in mourning, etc, etc. Or that you do not empathise, and give what you can to those in need. I never said otherwise.
You do not know what consequences might have occurred if God stopped the tsunami.
What a weak non-argument. We know quarter of a million people wouldn't have suffered awful deaths, we know 5m others wouldn't have a more miserable existence, many of them children now orphaned.
We can use your argument to discount any bible story and any decision your god made.
Been discussed already. But I was speaking of physical consequences as much as anything else. It is also a simple fact. You don't know if there are any negative consequences.
Everything that God does IS of love, yes.
And we're back to anything bad that happens is suddenly good as long as you slap an 'approved by god' sticker on the outcome.
I never said that. Bad things are bad things. That doesn't mean God caused them. Nor does it mean that they magically became good if God does not prevent them.
That doesn't mean everyone is capable of recognizing that because their goal (life forever free of disease and suffering and death right NOW) is not the same as His. They are limited in their sight. God is not. Love for His children, and according to His plan and timeline... which ensures that none of His children are lost. Lost from life, eternal. Once again, as was warned, everyone in this world/life dies. Including the sons/children of God... until Christ returns. People whose faith is in Christ and God know this. Including those who died in and/or survived the tsunami and other natural diasters.
So god is useless then. He has never stepped in to save his followers ... other than in bible stories. Why did he stop interfering when he couldn't keep his grubby hands off things before? Of what purpose is continuing life on earth as it is if it all counts for nothing?
He interfered... once and for all. Life on this planet does not count for nothing, as has also been discussed. The Kingdom has not come yet... because not everyone who belongs to Christ - who God has seen - has even been born yet, and so come to Christ. God will not lose even one of these.
In the meantime, the time is a mercy that each man has in his own life to repent and come to Life.
So it doesn't count for nothing.
BTW: I think you are confusing your beliefs with the plot of "Highlander" when you start talking about beings coming to earth and having to make it to the real spirit world blah blah
I don't know what you mean by this.
The ultimate extrapolation of your argument is that the Nazi's were good, Tsunami's are beneficial because they hasten people's journey to the spirit world.
No that is not even close.
You know what Tammy? You are a vile, insensitive, insulting, hypocritical, unthinking excuse for a human.
Nice to know that you are exempt from the rules you apply to others. I said something as vile as that... I would be banned at once.
Peace,
tammy
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
Yes but earthquakes are not
No Cofty. Your view on that is limited. You don't know how removing earthquakes (or removing the rough edges of tectonic plates) would affect all the other systems on the earth ... OR ... how that would have affected the evolution and support of life on this planet.
Peace,
tammy
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
Neanderthals, homo-erectus, dinosaurs,they all died enmasse before humans existed. The earth didnt all of the sudden become hostile 6000 yrs ago.
I never said that the earth became hostile 6000 years ago. Never even said Adam and Eve existed only 6000 years ago. Two different realms... physical and spiritual... and the timing is different between the two. I honestly don't know what the bridge is between the two, yet. But there is one.
omg.... Tec, this is embarassing. Also you are getting this from the bible, how do you know this bit is correct but the bit where god commands genocide isnt.
exactly! Game over.
I told you where I get my understanding Snare. From the Spirit. I know you cannot accept that. But I cannot do anything about that.
Peace to you,
tammy
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
Tammy ... did your god interfere to confuse languages to intentionally prevent mankind's unity?
No, not that I know of, and certainly not for that reason.
Did he stop the sun so the Israelites could slaughter people putting them at a disadvantage?
The sun does not 'move'... but the earth? I am not sure. If He did it would have been in response to a request from one who belongs to Him, not because God wanted anyone to be slaughtered.
Did he cause the worst 'natural disaster' ever? (the flood)
Yes... in a sense. Others caused the need for it. He did what He did to protect His children. To protect the seed. Including those not YET born. From those who would have destroyed them.
and so on, and so on.
Your god is an interfering little shit isn't he and yet when he could do good you claim he can't interfere.
You do not know my God.
He has interfered... he has protected Life, and given us His Son. He has given us a way home, even though he owes us nothing; a way back to Life, eternal life. He guides those who listen, now through His Son; who taught and gave instruction, who still teaches and speaks because He lives. God gave us a sign that we too have no fear of death... but that we will life, and Christ and His resurrection IS that sign.
Peace,
tammy
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
Tammy, I have a quick question. I read over some of the stuff you wrote, about Adam and Eve being spirit creatures. If they were never even supposed to be on the Earth, why was it create?
I never said they weren't supposed to be on the earth. They weren't supposed to be on the earth in these bodies that have sin and death in them. They weren't supposed to be limited to the earth. They could move in and out of the Garden (spiritual realm) and earth (physical realm)... until they had the long garment of skin (not the same body that they were created with) and could not longer access the spiritual realm.
This flesh and blood cannot enter the spiritual realm. It is unclean, it has sin and death in it. The new body ("like" what they first had, the white robe Christ gives) is clean in the blood of the lamb, and can move between spiritual and physical. Not limited to just one, but can move between both.
Why would God send them to a planet that would kill millions of their children? Is that a "sins of the father" sort of thing that we just need to accept?
Before the fall, before the long garment of skin... none of those children were subject to death.
Even if there WAS a good reason to NOT stop the tsunami, couldn't he have warned them? If there would have been even worse consequences from that, why can't God just tell us?
Who says that He did not warn them? Man doesn't do so well at hearing and listening to Him. (Christ now). Man doesnt' even believe He CAN speak. Much less listen and obey Him. Even with what we have written... that some consider to be the word of God... how many disregard what they do not want to hear? Selective hearing?
We have prophets because man did not listen. Not because God did not speak. Or Christ, now.
Your point number 6 is not true, no one demanding what God said would be in heaven, just saying "how about a home that doesn't kill us?"
It would not have killed us if not for the fall. The movements of the earth are essential for life ON this planet, and that brings natural events such as tornadoes, tsunamis, earthquakes, ice storms, etc, etc. I have not yet seen anyone even attempt to prove the claim that this world could support life without the movments of this world that are currently IN this world.
I also never said 'heaven'. I said the Kingdom. The Kingdom comes down out of heaven, but the Kingdom is on earth.
Peace,
tammy
