ok...when i left the org, i was quiet for a while....as you are, trying to get used to not being a jw robot, and trying to show the rest of the congregation and former friends and family, ..(like it matters),..that you are still nice, polite, spiritual......... not engaging in criminal acts, not smoking or taking drugs and not becoming the local slut falling out of pubs and clubs at the weekend in an alcohol induced stupor.
then i changed my mind!
not that i started engaging in all of the above....but that i stopped being quiet.
Okay so now your outspoken, deciding who is and who isnt evil, and have a new target.
Is shuffling around some beliefs, and trading one target (Christendom) for another (JW) really the spiritual advancement you were hoping for?
Could it be that GOD has different paths for everyoen and that for some the JW brand of Christiainty (as strange as it may seem) my be exactly what an individual needs at that time.
Is it possible that GOD leads people not only out of the JW, but also INTO the JW?
i am dating an advent christian (very similar to baptist).
i went to church with him for the first time yesterday.
i was pleased that he wanted me there because it's nice to be included in things that are meaningful to him.
I saw the presentation as matter of fact, or as a footnote down at the bottom.
Just mentioning the word doesnt make it graphic. If they go into descriptions then I would understand your concern, but just mentioning it, especially in the timeframe we are in now, is not innappropriate. I am a teacher and you would be astonished what sort of conversation goes on between 11 year olds!
I would much rather have them educated in a religious setting rather than by thier peers. Too many times people are so uptight about things they make it more appealing when good ol teenage rebelliousness hits.
I have always thought the best approach is to be honest and straightforward about any topic. I have read through most of the articles on this subject matter and dont find anything highly offensive.
Perhaps you can provide a sample of what you found offensive?
That being said, every JW is supposed to prepare for the WT article ahead of time, so they always have the option of missing that meeting if they think it is not appropriate.
the bossert was one of the several hotels that the jehovahs witnesses acquired and renovated during the 70s and 80s.
by 1984, when the witnesses purchased it, the building had been reduced to a sad condition by age and neglect.
the witnesses performed an excellent restoration, reproducing the mahogany windows and replacing 2,500 square feet of bottachino classico marble with stone from the original italian quarry.
Kret,
And you KNOW that they don't have private swiss bank accounts???
And you know they do?
These men who are running the JW's are not bad men. They are probably nice guys, who work hard, who are convinced they are doing what they can to help JW's worldwide. The problem they have is they have burdened themselves with something no human can ever possible accomplish. By saying they are the exclusive organization that represents Jesus, and by publishing and teaching that anyone who doesnt agree with them has no "scriptual hope" of salvation then they ahve effectively put themselves in the judgement seat of Jesus (as many have). That is an awfully big burden to carry on your shoulders, and one has to really believe in it to continue to endeavor such actions that were not meant for humans.
They are victims of thier own circumstance, carriers of thier own heavy yoke, and hence they have become convinced that anything that furthers the organization is justified because it is what Jehovah wants.
I actually feel bad for them, because they have a burden they cant possible carry, and sit in a seat they are not capable of sitting in. When put under too hard a load, every one compensates in one way or another.
But, I dont think they are thieves plundering the masses for their own personal gain. There has been nothing to ever hint at this whatsoever, and I assure you that the army of anti-JW propoganda artists out there would be on top of this if it was provable or true.
As much as you may want to hope to bring these guys down with such a scandal, the fact remains, this is nothing but a pipe-dream cooked up in seriously biased minds that assume the worse about these individuals because of thier victimization at the hands of the "unity at all cost" mantra.
JW will go out with an assimilation whimper, not the big dramatic scandal that you may want.
the bossert was one of the several hotels that the jehovahs witnesses acquired and renovated during the 70s and 80s.
by 1984, when the witnesses purchased it, the building had been reduced to a sad condition by age and neglect.
the witnesses performed an excellent restoration, reproducing the mahogany windows and replacing 2,500 square feet of bottachino classico marble with stone from the original italian quarry.
Noone makes money off the WTS.
The CEO's are referred to as teh GB, and they live in basically the same living arrangement all do at Bethel (the HQ for the WTS).
NO individuals make money.
the bossert was one of the several hotels that the jehovahs witnesses acquired and renovated during the 70s and 80s.
by 1984, when the witnesses purchased it, the building had been reduced to a sad condition by age and neglect.
the witnesses performed an excellent restoration, reproducing the mahogany windows and replacing 2,500 square feet of bottachino classico marble with stone from the original italian quarry.
So what, they did some "Hotel flipping", put in the work and time to restore it, and made some money.
Would anyone else have taken it on?
Is it against the rules for specific religions to make money?
While I do beleive the WTS, as an organization, can do more in the community, the fact remains any monies made are immediatly put back into the woship work. Isnt that what it is supposed to do?
Is any individual getting rich off of this profit? If that were the case, I would have a huge problem with it. There are many evangalists that do much worse to people on a daily basis.
But, they are using these monies to further "worship" (in thier own way of course).
I highly doubt they are the only religion to do such.
i have noticed a lot of newbies lately.
(i also noticed that after being absent for a year happy1975 is making a return visit.).
so, if you are a brand spanking newbie, post here and tell us a little about your interests, your state, your new direction in life, your favorite things, whatever you want to say---this is your thread.. .
With all that in mind I still dont beleive it is appropriate for me to bash a religion that has helped me to become a better man, a better husband, a better father, and has introduced me to the most important relationship I have ever had. I was missing something I couldnt put a finger on before the JW came to my door. I now know that something was a spiritual longing that I had been searching for but never could find.
I would never have set foot in a church had it not been for the JW. Too many wait for ones to come to them instead of GOING and making disciples like teh JW do. JW are fishers of men while too may others are simply keepers of aquariums.
However, JW are another religion just like all the others. They are more closed and controlling than others (some are too liberal), taught to be xenophobic , but in general a collection of folks that are nice people trying to find thier way and thier place in this confusion we call life.
I also beleive that focusing on what happens in the next life, the new system, or the life we live after the Big A prevents us from seeing the expression of Jehovah GOD all around us, and the beauty he imparts to all of us. Sometimes that focus prevents us from being thankfull for what he has given us today.
That was patched together so hope it makes sense.
i have noticed a lot of newbies lately.
(i also noticed that after being absent for a year happy1975 is making a return visit.).
so, if you are a brand spanking newbie, post here and tell us a little about your interests, your state, your new direction in life, your favorite things, whatever you want to say---this is your thread.. .
I dont agree with the blood policy
I find 1914 in the realm of maybes not in Bible fact.
Plus, I find the checklist one goes down in order to be approved by GOD as rather closed minded.
I am not so sure that the GC is on earth, as the WTS interetation of the greek word "enopian" and "naos" changes to fit thier theolgy.
I am not so sure about WTS interetation of who is in the New Covenant and how reconciliation to GOD is established.
I dont agree with WTS interpetation of Romans 6.
Also, in general I find them too constricting for my personality, and them going beyond the Bible in areas that should be left up to conscience.
I dont think they are evil, I dont think they are trying to misled, I think they are doing thier best to manage a burden they have put on themselves, and that they generally do beleive GOD directs them.
I think GOD does direct them, but not them excusively.
GOD works through individuals not organizations, and GOD knows what is best for you, for me, and every other person in the world. How he reveals himself to you, and how he reveals himself to me is more a function of what HE thinks we need at that time rather than what some religion tells us how he works.
Some need JW's, some need Catholics, some need Baptist, etc.. others can go it alone.
I think the Body of Christ is recognized by choices, behavior, and what is first in one's life. I think it is recognized by ones deeds and not by ones creeds, and I think JW and many other groups fall into the trap of assuming to know who GOD chooses, and what GOD wants in order for us to be considered worthy of the gift he gives through his Son Jesus Christ.
Doctrinal focus in general seperates rather than brings together, and when you use differences to set yourself apart then you are setting the foundation for arrogance, close-mindedness, and presumptousness. JW do this, and yet so do most who leave the JW.
i am dating an advent christian (very similar to baptist).
i went to church with him for the first time yesterday.
i was pleased that he wanted me there because it's nice to be included in things that are meaningful to him.
Sorry guys I made this observation on another board, copied it, and it got kind of messed up.
Here was the last part:
What I was struck by was the absolute lack of pertintiousness this older couple presented themselves.
They talked about thier struggles, talked about thier weaknesses, and really laid thier life out there un-edited, for all to see.
They explained they still dont have it all together, the still struggle from time to time, but what they have learned to do is resolve issues quickly.
The DIFFERENCE I noticed with this presentation and the scripted JW presentations is that there was no facade, no radiation of having it all together, and no claim to have an absolute answer.
There was no Jehovah came in to my life and we lived happily ever after.
I always felt that people at the KH were more interested in the outside of the cup so to speak, and I never got to see the insides of thier cups, save for a few close ones.
There was always this wall, this sort of on guard approach to conversation.
dont get me wrong the JW's were nice, but thier was this lack of intimacy as if noone wanted to share too much.
It took a huge burden off my shoulders to see there were people like me, who struggle from time to time with lifes series of small criseses, and for the first time I realied I didnt live in a cacoon.
It was refreshing, I felt like I was closer to these people than I had been to most of the JW's in almost five years of attending the KH.
So, I guess my question is...
Are JW's so interested in outward appearances that they are missing an ingredient of intimacy that is needed to forge real relationships amongst the unwashed masses that is mankind?
i am dating an advent christian (very similar to baptist).
i went to church with him for the first time yesterday.
i was pleased that he wanted me there because it's nice to be included in things that are meaningful to him.
I have been attending a Church on Wednesday nights that just finished a series of studies on the DISC personality profiles and how those apply to Bible characters.
It was part of the Men's ministry, and was attended by mostly married men, and it was designed for us to understand our wives better and to improve our communication with our better halfs.
Any way I was struck by two things.
1) First thing is, every person I have met so far is just as caring, just as concerned about morality, and just as focused at living a GODLy life as the JW.
I wasn't raised in the xenophobia that exists amongst JW's, so this didnt come as a big shock to me but something else did.....
The presenter had his wife get up and tell us thier testimony.
She laid it all out for us about her and her marriage and how they have grown in Christ.
She talked about how they first met, then she talked about when they were married the struggles they went through, and it got to the point where she wanted to just leave and take the kids with her.
NO immorality, just a serious communication gap.
She went on to explain how GOD helped them through it, how they struggled with a SON that had to be hospitalized because of depression, and how they got to the point they are today.
| What I was struck by was the absolute lack of pertintiousness this older couple presented themselves. They talked about thier struggles, talked about thier weaknesses, and really laid thier life out there un-edited, for all to see. They explained they still dont have it all together, the still struggle from time to time, but what they have learned to do is resolve issues quickly. The DIFFERENCE I noticed with this presentation and the scripted JW presentations is that there was no facade, no radiation of having it all together, and no claim to have an absolute answer. There was no Jehovah came in to my life and we lived happily ever after. I always felt that people at the KH were more interested in the outside of the cup so to speak, and I never got to see the insides of thier cups, save for a few close ones. There was always this wall, this sort of on guard approach to conversation. dont get me wrong the JW's were nice, but thier was this lack of intimacy as if noone wanted to share too much. It took a huge burden off my shoulders to see there were people like me, who struggle from time to time with lifes series of small criseses, and for the first time I realied I didnt live in a cacoon. It was refreshing, I felt like I was closer to these people than I had been to most of the JW's in almost five years of attending the KH. So, I guess my question is... Are JW's so interested in outward appearances that they are missing an ingredient of intimacy that is needed to forge real relationships amongst the unwashed masses that is mankind? | |
| Little lamb Modbury, Australia |
| What I was struck by was the absolute lack of pertintiousness this older couple presented themselves. They talked about thier struggles, talked about thier weaknesses, and really laid thier life out there un-edited, for all to see. They explained they still dont have it all together, the still struggle from time to time, but what they have learned to do is resolve issues quickly. The DIFFERENCE I noticed with this presentation and the scripted JW presentations is that there was no facade, no radiation of having it all together, and no claim to have an absolute answer. There was no Jehovah came in to my life and we lived happily ever after. I always felt that people at the KH were more interested in the outside of the cup so to speak, and I never got to see the insides of thier cups, save for a few close ones. There was always this wall, this sort of on guard approach to conversation. dont get me wrong the JW's were nice, but thier was this lack of intimacy as if noone wanted to share too much. It took a huge burden off my shoulders to see there were people like me, who struggle from time to time with lifes series of small criseses, and for the first time I realied I didnt live in a cacoon. It was refreshing, I felt like I was closer to these people than I had been to most of the JW's in almost five years of attending the KH. So, I guess my question is... Are JW's so interested in outward appearances that they are missing an ingredient of intimacy that is needed to forge real relationships amongst the unwashed masses that is mankind? | |
| Little lamb Modbury, Australia |
i am dating an advent christian (very similar to baptist).
i went to church with him for the first time yesterday.
i was pleased that he wanted me there because it's nice to be included in things that are meaningful to him.
Chalam the discussions they have about sex are educational and hardly graphic. Trying to connect that with some sort of disproportional pedophile problem you think they have is not only hatefull, but reflective of your heart at this time. I pray you are able to let go of your anger, and quit making claims that have no merit whatsoever.
