brotherdan

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Posts by brotherdan

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  20

  finally read Crisis of Conscience

  by A.Fenderson in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i recently finished reading crisis of conscience.

  in short, it was one of the most important books i've ever read, even considering that i left the kh 13 years ago.

  i honestly cannot see how anyone could read it and still maintain that they believe in the wts religion--have any of you ever known someone to read it and actually still believe and be happy with the jw religion?

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  brotherdan

  I've got pdfs of "Crises" "Christian Freedom" and "Captives of a Concept" if anyone would like these.
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  98

  My sucky situation

  by brotherdan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi guys,.

  sadly some of them had been in bethel for 5 - 10 years and were still cleaning toilets.. after about 2 years of it i couldn't do it anymore.

  i always knew something wasn't quite right with this organization.

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  brotherdan

  Wow guys... I don't know what to say. The support here is amazing. I've felt so alone for this entire time. I apologize for not being able to post more often. I can ONLY do it at work. I learned when I got caught on youtube. She told me she couldn't believe that I was listening to those "freaks". They really do demonize anyone that disagrees with them.

  I guess to clarify, I think her playing the divorce card was just a power play. I think she might have moved out for a while, but I know that she loves me. She is an incredibly passionate person. And while that is one quality I love most about her...it's also one of the things that drives me nuts. So far I've been able to keep quiet about everything. I appreciate all the advice in this regard. It's hard to know what to do sometimes, especially in the heat of the situation. As is true with everyone here, I'm sure, this is a new situation for me. I've never gone through anything like this in my life.

  But I DO love her and I love my kids. I don't want them to grow up with divorced parents. Obviously I only want the best for them. So I'm willing to take anything. I told my wife during our argument that she could leave me, but I will never leave her. My love for her is unconditional, and I was under the impression that hers was too. It's crazy how subtle the Watchtower is in taking away that natural affection and unconditional love from people. And then in the same breath they say, "We are the truth because we have love." Crazy...
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  98

  My sucky situation

  by brotherdan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi guys,.

  sadly some of them had been in bethel for 5 - 10 years and were still cleaning toilets.. after about 2 years of it i couldn't do it anymore.

  i always knew something wasn't quite right with this organization.

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  brotherdan

  It's ok. I know how to argue without getting mad. I don't really understand some of her points though... They seem to be....off....?
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  98

  My sucky situation

  by brotherdan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi guys,.

  sadly some of them had been in bethel for 5 - 10 years and were still cleaning toilets.. after about 2 years of it i couldn't do it anymore.

  i always knew something wasn't quite right with this organization.

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  brotherdan

  I understand you Alice.in.wonderland. My posts were not trying to prove any particular point. I can do that in a different forum. To be honest it would be hard to fit all the reasons that I have for not believing the Watchtower on 1 post.

  But if you would like very simple examples of why I feel the way I do here you go (Remember, these are SHORT examples and are not thorough arguments):

  1. Deut 18:20-22 defines a false prophet. The WT has repeatedly been guily of falsly prophecying in Jehovah's name

  2. The WT claims that they were appointed as the Faithful slave in 1919 following Jesus inspection during 1918. An examination of the teachings at that time make it impossible to believe that Jesus would be pleased with what he found.

  3. The WT has, in numerous cases, used a double standard. Their involvement with the UN is one example. The situation in Malawi is another.

  4. They have changed the word of God to fit into their own theology. Col 1:15 is a great example. The word (other) was never in the text. To make matters worse, they have, in their most recent 2006 version of the NWT, removed the brackets to make it appear as if it WAS in the original text!!!! The scriptures say that if 1 jot was removed or added to the Word of God, that one will be destroyed

  5. They do not match the 1st century Christian congregation. This one has many facets, but just one example can be the way they handle judicial hearings. There was no provision for a locked committee meeting to be done with those who were suspected of a sin. In fact, it was to be a public hearing before the entire congregation.

  So Alice, please don't imply that I don't have a reason for feeling the way that I feel. I have no interest in reconstructionist churches. I put in my fare with Jesus Christ. Men will always let you down. But He won't.
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  98

  My sucky situation

  by brotherdan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi guys,.

  sadly some of them had been in bethel for 5 - 10 years and were still cleaning toilets.. after about 2 years of it i couldn't do it anymore.

  i always knew something wasn't quite right with this organization.

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  brotherdan

  Thanks for the advice Dagney. As unimaginable as it seems right now, I know that I could live through a divorce.

  One thing you said which was interesting is, "Can she be the mate that you signed up for?" That's one thing she keeps throwing at me is that she "married a faithful Jehovah's Witness". And "I don't even know who you are anymore". And "Our kids WILL be raised as Jehovah's Witnesses". I know that I'm no longer what she signed up for. But isn't that growth? Isn't that a part of life, part of learning? I always thought so.

  I always told her that she could be burned in a fire and I would take care of her. She could become any other cultish religion. And while I would try to show her she was wrong, I'd stay by her side. Apparently that love worked only 1 way.
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  98

  My sucky situation

  by brotherdan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi guys,.

  sadly some of them had been in bethel for 5 - 10 years and were still cleaning toilets.. after about 2 years of it i couldn't do it anymore.

  i always knew something wasn't quite right with this organization.

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• 

  brotherdan

  BOHM: That's great advice. What she means about "being a good JW" is making sure we make all the meetings, and having a family study (which I am absolutely NOT opposed to). Fortunatly she hasn't brought up field service, which is something I will NEVER do again. I've taught more junk and wasted more peoples time than I care to admit.

  Seriously, we never studied the bible. We studied books and used the bible as a convenient referrence to prove our point, instead of vice versa. We should've studied the bible and maybe used a book for some upbuilding comments or exposition.

  Also, my kids are young. One is 4 years, the other 4 months. So I have time to get things together. I have not read Hassaans work yet. I definitely will. The more I fight with this the more obvious it is that they are extremely mind controled. It really illustrates the prophecy at Mat 24:11 doesn't it?
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  98

  My sucky situation

  by brotherdan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi guys,.

  sadly some of them had been in bethel for 5 - 10 years and were still cleaning toilets.. after about 2 years of it i couldn't do it anymore.

  i always knew something wasn't quite right with this organization.

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  2. 
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• 

  brotherdan

  Alice in Wonderland said: "Even if you are under the impression that there is an “illusionary concept that holds millions of Jehovah's Witnesses captive by controlling how they think” you're still allowing others to dominate your thinking if this book changed your mind about anything."

  I understand your point. However I have not let the claims of one man or one book make my decisions for me. Yes, Ray Franz opened my eyes to a lot that was wrong in the organization. But it was the further research in what the Watchtower itself has said that convinced me of it's untruth. It is their record of action that has caused me to believe that they are a dangerous cult. I'm not merely repeating what others before me have said. I'm not sure what you mean about "anything in the book" can be deduced logically and disproved. If you haven't read the book, then you should keep quite about things you don't understand.

  I'm not trying to convince my wife of anything other than the need to examine her religions history and their record and ONLY THEN come to a conclusion as to what is true and what is false. I guarantee you that this is a counterfiet gospel.
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  98

  My sucky situation

  by brotherdan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi guys,.

  sadly some of them had been in bethel for 5 - 10 years and were still cleaning toilets.. after about 2 years of it i couldn't do it anymore.

  i always knew something wasn't quite right with this organization.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  brotherdan

  Wow...I didn't think I'd get this kind of response. Thanks! I appreciate all the advice. This is a hard situation because while I truly hate this organizations policies and teachings, I love my wife. I always thought that our love was unconditional. I told her that I'd still be in love with her if she turned to Islam. I would try to convince her that she was dead wrong, but I wouldn't leave her side.

  She just says "It's not spiritually safe to stay". So now I feel like I'm a coward for saying, in effect "I will be a good Jehovah's Witness. Just, Please don't leave!"

  I almost wish I could say "Don't let the door hit you on the way out." But guys, I love this girl. I love my kids so much. I know something has to give. But I feel like the Watchtowers hooks are hooked into my heart. I just want to tear it out. But what kind of damage will that do to myself and my kids?
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  29

  SO sad! The elders never cease to amaze me...

  by babygirl30 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on fb yesterday, an old friend of mine 'friended' me....and once again, i was hesitant to actually accept because i didn't know how she would feel about me being df'd.

  but i accepted, and she sent me a msg.

  well we ended up talking back and forth for awhile, and found out that she lives right around the corner from me!!!!!!!!!!

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  brotherdan

  This is exactly why I wish everyone called into a judicial committee secretly records it! People need to be warned and prepared as to what they are going to face. I've only been able to find 3 or 4 judicial committee recordings on the internet. But each of them have been VERY helpful. sixscreensofthewatchtower.com is a great one. Click on "Enter" and then screen "5" and then on "fly on the wall", to hear Rick Fearons judicial committee. Very enlightening.
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  98

  My sucky situation

  by brotherdan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi guys,.

  sadly some of them had been in bethel for 5 - 10 years and were still cleaning toilets.. after about 2 years of it i couldn't do it anymore.

  i always knew something wasn't quite right with this organization.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  brotherdan

  Hi Guys,

  I've been watching the posts for a while, but I never have commented. There are so many strange and interesting things going on in the world of the Watchtower, that I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. I guess I'll start with my story.

  I was born and raised a Jehovah's Witness. I was baptized at age 13 (WAY too young). I worked my way through some of high school and when I was 16 I took the California proficiency test and got my diploma early. I did this so I could get started in the only work that was truly important...pioneering. I regular pioneered for 5 years. This was my first experience at not being "good enough" for Jehovah and his organization. While all the other pioneers seemed to get their time every month, I always struggled. In fact, I don't think I ever got my time in for all the years I pioneered. I think my dad being an elder was one of the only reasons they let me stay on.

  Apparently I did not learn because I turned in my application and was accepted to bethel when I was 20. So on thanksgiving day in 2000 I was flying to New York. I served at the Watchtower Educational Center in Patterson NY. If I ever felt unworthy in field service...wow. There were rules for everything. Everything from sideburns, to how to make your bed, to how to butter your toast, to only wearing collard unbranded shirts, etc, etc, etc... I was constantly being talked to for something.

  Morning worship starts every morning at 7 am sharp. ON THE SECOND! If I came to my seat 10 seconds late, my table head would look at his watch, shake his head, and give me a good talking to after breakfast. To make matters worse I had pretty much the worst job there was. I'm all for pitching in, but when you are cleaning toilets, it's hard to keep in mind that you are working for God. On the plus side I had some GREAT people that I was working with. Sadly some of them had been in bethel for 5 - 10 years and were STILL cleaning toilets.

  After about 2 years of it I couldn't do it anymore. I was being talked to weekly about something. I was constantly being told to "tighten it up, chief, heh heh heh". I was called the "dysfunctional bethelite" by my friends. Even they would say "How did YOU get accepted to bethel". All of this just turned into horrible self esteem and I left in a depressed mess.

  I went back home dejected and everyone in the hall excited that a real live bethelite was going to be in their congregation. I was so disillusioned I couldn't care less. I didn't want to be an example anymore. 7 years of being the example was too much. This seemed to disappoint everyone. It's not that I did anything wrong, I just...didn't do anything. It was too much.

  In the middle of this I met my wife and moved to AZ. She is a JW, but not a very strong one in the usual standards. She believes it with all of her heart and will listen to NOTHING critical of it. We had 2 kids and I held on for as long as I could. I always knew something wasn't quite right with this organization. I hated calling ALL other people "worldly" and "goats" and speaking as if we were so much better than everyone else. But I still believed it was Gods organization.

  About a year and a half ago I stumbled on Crises of Conscience. It rocked my entire world. It was everything I needed to know. It was validation for everything that I felt. I now had words to put to the feelings. Legalism, Double Standards, False Prophecy, Intimidation! These were things that I saw through a looking glass darkly. I devoured the book and immediatly went to my wife, who was pregnant with our 2nd child. What a shock her reaction was to me. I tried to communicate this in the best way I knew how, but I can see now that it wasn't the best way to go about it. I just tried to get her to see that we had been lied to all these years.

  What I've come to realize is that being a JW is her ENTIRE identity. She has NO other identity. She was offered a free ride to NYU for her acting, and she turned it down because she knew it would keep her from being a witness. So it was too much for her to see. She asked me to not bring it up again until she was no longer pregnant.

  Over the months I've tried to keep quite about all that I've learned. I read "Christian Freedom" and "Captives of a Concept" and have never been more sure of anything in my life. I began studying the Bible like no other, and really feel that I've learned so much more from it.

  But the fork in the road has come over the last few weeks. I told her during a conversation on the phone that there is not a shadow of a doubt in my mind that this is not God's organization. In fact, according to the Watchtowers own literature, IT CAN'T BE! I came home to find my study bible ripped to shreds along with all our wedding photos. I was able to somehow smooth things over and calm her down. This weekend she found some things that I had been posting on youtube. She read some of them and came into the room and told me that we were through. She doesn't think it's safe for her and the kids to stay with me. She said I'm trying to sabbatoge her spirituality.

  She said, Unless I change course and start living and acting like a JW, she will be filing divorce papers. I don't know what to do. I have a new found Christian faith in God. I understand SOOO much more of the Bible than I ever did. And yet to keep my family I have to either continue living a lie or turn my back on my new faith.

  Anyone else been in some kind of predicament like this? It really hurts. This is the worst time in my life. I don't know what to do...