so all of us that grew up as witnesses never did certain things because of them having pagan origins.
why don't we celebrate christmas?
pagan origins.
Well unfortunately for the non-believers, their words were not included in the inspired scriptures. Pauls were. Paul also said that if Jesus was not crucified and resurected, then Christianity meant NOTHING. (1 Cor 15:12-14)
There are basics that must be believed to be Christian. My only point was saying that there could have been disagreements between the churches without there being a need for one to say that the other was not saved because of such a disagreement.
so all of us that grew up as witnesses never did certain things because of them having pagan origins.
why don't we celebrate christmas?
pagan origins.
Debator, the Bible doesn't give us a date for a lot of things. It doesn't give a date for the desruction of Jerusalem, but JWs say it is 607. It doesn't give the date for Adams creating, but JWs have a date for that too.
So it doesn't have a date for Jesus birth. But why is celebrating my anniversary ok and celebrating my Lords birth wrong? It makes no sense debator. We don't celebrate it just because it's not a command?!? How is a command a real celebration anyway?!? A celebration is a way to show you appreciate something, right?
I feel ashamed that I have never showed an outward appreciation (via celebration) of my Lords birth. You should be ashamed of yourself too, Debator.
so all of us that grew up as witnesses never did certain things because of them having pagan origins.
why don't we celebrate christmas?
pagan origins.
You're right Olin. There is not 1 single true religion. But that's not the point of Christianity. The 1st century Christians did not believe exactly the same things either. But they all believed in Jesus and him crucified for our sins. They were allowed to disagree on other topics. We will never understand the TRUE truth until Jesus comes again.
We all just do the best we can with what we have...the Bible. Witnesses don't follow it, obviously. And neither do many other religions. There is a difference between faith and religion and between Christianity and religon. Religion is man made. Christianity is Christ made.
so all of us that grew up as witnesses never did certain things because of them having pagan origins.
why don't we celebrate christmas?
pagan origins.
About John being beheaded on a birthday, I will suggest a RADICAL view point.
How bout this...
Let's condemn MURDER and MURDERERS instead of the birthday! If someone is killed on a saturday, let's be angry at the murder and not the date. If someone is killed at a Bar Mitsvah, lets go after the killer instead of banning the Bar Mitsvah.
so all of us that grew up as witnesses never did certain things because of them having pagan origins.
why don't we celebrate christmas?
pagan origins.
Also Debator, can you show me 1 piece of historical evidence that the 1st century Christians DID NOT celebrate any type of birthday? And then can you show me 1 piece of historical evidence that the 1st century Christians DID celebrate any type of anniversary?
so all of us that grew up as witnesses never did certain things because of them having pagan origins.
why don't we celebrate christmas?
pagan origins.
Debator, the Bible is not silent on these things. Read JWoods post about Romans 14. Read it. Please. You are not to judge those that observe a holy day. Or any other type of day.
For example, one way that first century pagans worshiped their gods was to bring an animal to the temple, dedicate it to their diety, kill it, and eat it. Albert Barnes wrote that some of the animal that had been offered tot he idol was taken to the market and sold with the other meat. Was there a possibility that a Christian could purcahse and eat such meat without contamination? Yes. Paul said that meat offered to idols was "nothing". If it bothered anothers conscience, you were not to eat it in front of them. But it was not violating God's law to do so. Read 1 Cor 10.
The point is, a person does not become a sharer in paganism through contact with the item used in pagan worship. What really distinguishes the Christain from the unbeliever is the willingness to put the needs of others ahead of his or her own.
Debator, you mention the Bible's silence on birthdays as being condemnatory. What about the bible's silence on anniversaries and objects (i.e rings, veils, etc...) used in weddings? Is this not too condemnatory? How do you justify one pagan origin and not the other? You are such a hypocrite.
so all of us that grew up as witnesses never did certain things because of them having pagan origins.
why don't we celebrate christmas?
pagan origins.
I guess I'm not the guy to talk to about this one. I'm a young earth supporter. So I don't hold the the dating of hundreds of thousands of years for men being on earth.
so all of us that grew up as witnesses never did certain things because of them having pagan origins.
why don't we celebrate christmas?
pagan origins.
I really don't see the difference between an anniversary and a birthday. Anniversaries honor the marriage. Birthdays honor the birth. Gifts are given at anniversaries. Gifts are given at birthdays. I have sex on my anniversary and I have sex...er...well...my wife doesn't do birthdays, but I can still usually get some on my birthday.
it just occurred to me that very possibly the jws are violating their own rule of "two witnesses" to convict a member of sin.. they have also long held the rule that if a man and a woman spend the night alone, this is evidence of adultery - but are there really two witnesses to adultery?
at the most, it would mean that there could have been two witnesses that they stayed under one roof for the night - not necessarily that they did the deed.
i personally know of certain cases where people have been dfd on this kind of "evidence" even when they protested that no sex took place.. what it made me think about is the greatly restrictive rule on proof of child molestation - here it is practically impossible to obtain their standard of "two witnesses" - in this case, the witnesses have to effectively observe the actual act of molestation.. is this a double standard?
Sorry...just started reading and saw you guys were already talking about it.
it just occurred to me that very possibly the jws are violating their own rule of "two witnesses" to convict a member of sin.. they have also long held the rule that if a man and a woman spend the night alone, this is evidence of adultery - but are there really two witnesses to adultery?
at the most, it would mean that there could have been two witnesses that they stayed under one roof for the night - not necessarily that they did the deed.
i personally know of certain cases where people have been dfd on this kind of "evidence" even when they protested that no sex took place.. what it made me think about is the greatly restrictive rule on proof of child molestation - here it is practically impossible to obtain their standard of "two witnesses" - in this case, the witnesses have to effectively observe the actual act of molestation.. is this a double standard?
I haven't read through the entire post, so I don't know if someone brought this up...but if it could be proven that a man and a child were alone together, then could that be evidence of molestation or rape?
