Posts by brotherdan

20

Am I bad for doing that?

by asilentone in

jw
friends

sometimes when i see insect here in my home, i just put a drinking glass over it and let it die slowly.

am i that cruel?

.

brotherdan

I'm not here to condemn anyone. And we all have killed insects. But does it in any way reflect the way you view the sacredness of life in general?

46

Pagan Origins

by brotherdan in

so all of us that grew up as witnesses never did certain things because of them having pagan origins.

why don't we celebrate christmas?

pagan origins.

Zid, what if the worlds paganism came from a distorted view of true worship? What if these pagan ideas had good origins? The Bible talks about Babylon (more specifically the area around the tower of Babel) as being a source of false worship. It would be easy to attribute Christian ideas to paganism because of it's own separate history.

For example we know that the Roman gods had their origins from the Greek gods. The Greeks got many of their ideas from ancient Egypt and Babylon. Why could not all of these have been distortions of the truth?

46

Pagan Origins

by brotherdan in

so all of us that grew up as witnesses never did certain things because of them having pagan origins.

why don't we celebrate christmas?

pagan origins.

brotherdan

That's just my point. Do we even need to worry about the origins when they are thousands of years old?

When I was a pioneer and asked about Christmas I would use the illustration of the Israelites worshipping the calf. They "called" it worship to Jehovah. But just because they called it something different didn't mean that it changed what it really was, or how it originated. It was pagan worship from the leftovers of the Egyptians.

But here's the deal. What about the origins of the Watchtower? Don't they have some pagan ties and origins? Pyramidology? Astrology? Getting knowledge from the dead (anointed ones)?

So if we are not to consider Watchtower origins that no longer have the same meanings, why do we need to look at other origins that have no pagan meanings today (i.e. Christmas)

I'd like to get a JW perspective too (Titus?)

46

Pagan Origins

by brotherdan in

so all of us that grew up as witnesses never did certain things because of them having pagan origins.

why don't we celebrate christmas?

pagan origins.

brotherdan

So all of us that grew up as Witnesses never did certain things because of them having pagan origins. Why don't we celebrate Christmas? Pagan origins. Why don't we celebrate Mothers Day, for crying out loud? Pagan origins.

I'd like to ask: Is it possible for us to completely avoid everything that is connected with paganism? Where does the connection become a sin? Where does the connection become a "conscience matter"?

This question is mainly to other Christians. And I'm serious about it. So I know all the jokes some of you guys can come up with about it. But I want to get an honest answer from some of you guys.

Much of the culture has been influenced in one way or another by pagan influences. Days, weeks and months of the year have pagan connection. Money has pagan symbols on it. Shaking hands and wedding rings have pagan connections.

But where do these things represent a danger to a Christian?

We all know that the WT condemns some things (I.E Birthdays) but not others (I.E Anniversaries, Weddings, etc...) Now that you are out of the mind control, where do you draw the line?

9

Children and KH Meetings

by brotherdan in

i recently found this in the proclaimers book on page 245,246. thanks to nicedream for showing this to me.

i've always felt bad for making my 4 year old sit for 2 hours and be quiet while not understanding anything that was going on during the meetings.

i've always thought that churches have had the right idea in teaching kids on their own.

brotherdan

I recently found this in the proclaimers book on page 245,246. Thanks to NiceDream for showing this to me. I've always felt bad for making my 4 year old sit for 2 hours and be quiet while not understanding anything that was going on during the meetings. I've always thought that churches have had the right idea in teaching kids on their own. Not everyone is at the same level spiritually.

While I'm glad that my son has not heard anything at the meetings, I think the WT would be smart to incorporate some sort of sunday school (thank god they don't, however) But notice, they used to do this:

The Golden Age, in 1920, carried a feature entitled “Juvenile Bible Study,” with questions accompanied by Scripture citations in which the answers could be found. That same year, The Golden Age ABC was published; it was an illustrated booklet for use by parents in teaching basic Bible truths and Christian qualities to their youngsters. A book entitled The Way to Paradise, written by W. E. Van Amburgh, followed in 1924. It was adapted to “intermediate students of the Bible.” For a time it was used at the meetings for younger ones. Additionally, in America, “Junior Witnesses” had their own arrangements for field service. In Switzerland a youth group formed an association called “Jehovah’s Youth,” for those between 13 and 25 years of age. They had their own secretary’s office in Berne, and a special magazine, Jehovah’s Youth, was edited and printed on the Society’s presses there. These youths had their own meetings and even put on Bible dramas, as they did in the Volkshaus in Zurich for an audience of 1,500.
What was taking place, however, was that an organization was developing within the organization of Jehovah’s servants. This would not contribute to unity, and it was discontinued in 1936. In April 1938, during a visit to Australia, J. F. Rutherford, the Society’s president, found that a class for children was being held apart from the convention for adults. He immediately arranged for all the children to be brought into the main convention, which was greatly to their benefit.
In that same year, The Watchtower reviewed the entire matter of separate classes for young folks in the congregation. That study again emphasized the fact that parents are responsible to instruct their own children. (Eph. 6:4; compare Deuteronomy 4:9, 10; Jeremiah 35:6-10.) It also showed that the Bible provides no precedent for segregating young ones by means of junior classes. Instead, they were to be present with their parents to hear God’s Word. (Deut. 31:12, 13; Josh. 8:34, 35) When further explanation of study material was needed, this could be given by the parents at home. Furthermore, the articles pointed out that arrangements for such separate classes were actually detracting from the house-to-house preaching of the good news. How so? Because the teachers were staying out of the field service to prepare for these classes and to conduct them. So, all separate classes for youths were discontinued.

Good ol' Rutherford!

7

Practical proof that the WT publications are a higher authority for JWs than the bible itself.

by Chalam in

hi jwners,.

ever noticed how you can ask a jw a biblical question and they immediately are reaching for the wt cd?!.

sure, they claim the bible is their "highest authority" but in practice the wt publications are the highest authority for the jw.. .

brotherdan

I'd like to share this quote from a statement both Franz and Knorr made to the supreme court about the origin of the WT and Awake.

1. "LAWYER: At any rate, Jehovah God is now the editor of the paper, is that right? F.FRANZ: He is today the editor of the paper. LAWYER: How long has he been editor of the paper? F.FRANZ: Since its inception he has been guiding it. LAWYER: Even before 1931? F.FRANZ: Yes, sir. .. LAWYER: But you don't make any mention in the fore part of your Watch Tower that 'We are not infallible and subject to correction and may make mistakes'? N.H.KNORR: We have never claimed infallibility. LAWYER: But you don't make any such statement, that you are subject to correction, in your Watch Tower papers do you? N.H.KNORR: Not that I recall. LAWYER: In fact, it is set forth directly as God's Word, isn't it? N.H.KNORR: Yes, as His Word. LAWYER: Without any qualification whatsoever? N.H.KNORR: That is right." {Action for Libel: Olin R. Moyle v. F.W.Franz, et al, May 10 - May 27 1943, New York Supreme Court, Appellate Division, sections 2596-7, 4420-1}

30

What amount of Borg demise would you consider victory?

by Mad Sweeney in

jw
friends

there's always a lot of discussion about "bringing down the wts" and how it will "never happen" because they'll just keep going and going.. so here's my question.

granted that barring some major international changes of a catastrophic scifi nature the wts is going to exist in some shape or form for the next hundred years and probably more, what progress on the "apostate" front would you personally consider a success?.

would you simply be happy to have all of your blood relatives out?.

brotherdan

I've been having the fantasy of getting in good with the congregation again and giving my first talk. What a talk it would be! It'd be talked about for years. Just like the smurf that came alive during the meeting.

Has anyone started a smurf urban legend post? I remember hearing a ton of them when I was growing up. My son has a smurf now and watches smurf reruns all the time now. No demonic possetion yet... Maybe we should try to bring it to a meeting?

150

Definitely getting DF'ed now

by notverylikely in

jw
friends

came out as an apostate to the wife, came out about the depression, anger at being second fiddle in her life to 9 old guys in brooklyn, came out about having turned atheist, came out about the indiscrections, the tobacco use, everything.. fuck.

me..

brotherdan

notverylikely,

I'm going through the lying and hiding right now. It's purely about religion, but it's still tough. I WILL lose my family (including my wife) if I give this org up. So who knows. But you've gotten through the part that takes some people YEARS to get through. So you overcame one hurdle. The next one is starting your new life off fresh and saving your kids from having to go through the same thing.

30

What amount of Borg demise would you consider victory?

by Mad Sweeney in

jw
friends

there's always a lot of discussion about "bringing down the wts" and how it will "never happen" because they'll just keep going and going.. so here's my question.

granted that barring some major international changes of a catastrophic scifi nature the wts is going to exist in some shape or form for the next hundred years and probably more, what progress on the "apostate" front would you personally consider a success?.

would you simply be happy to have all of your blood relatives out?.

brotherdan

I love the idea though Hadit! Can you imagine? I wonder if someone would get up and walk him off the stage if he did that? What if he said, "Brothers, I am sorry to tell you that we have been misleading you for many many years. We have been guilty of the murders of thousands. We have blood on our hands and by your support of us, you too are blood guilty."

What a dream, huh?!?

30

What amount of Borg demise would you consider victory?

by Mad Sweeney in

jw
friends

there's always a lot of discussion about "bringing down the wts" and how it will "never happen" because they'll just keep going and going.. so here's my question.

granted that barring some major international changes of a catastrophic scifi nature the wts is going to exist in some shape or form for the next hundred years and probably more, what progress on the "apostate" front would you personally consider a success?.

would you simply be happy to have all of your blood relatives out?.

brotherdan

Hadit, we already had that and it worked, but not to the destruction of the borg. Ray Franz was one of the most honorable JWs in history. He stuck up for truth and exposed the disgusting wrong doing occuring in the organization. But it'll take more than that to see a total destruction of the borg.