Posts by JosephAlward

64

Is God just teasing us?

by joannadandy in

ok yesterday i was talking to my dad (moe's thread reminded me) he said something about how bad satan was...and said, yeah but "wasn't it eve and adam's fault?

i mean yeah satan laid out the sales pitch but they could have said no.

you know gone home, talked it over with god, it wasn't even that high pressured a sales pitch.

JosephAlward

BLONDIE observed,

"Above is the Calvinism thread. They believe that we are doomed from the moment we are born or blessed because God has foreordained our individual futures. Now isn't that a kicker."

JOE ALWARD responds:

The Bible teaches exactly what the Calvinists believe:

For he chose us in him BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 HE PREDESTINED US to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. (Ephesians 1:4-6, emphasis added)

Thus, Ephesians says that our doom or salvation was sealed at the moment of the creation of the world, so evidently nothing we do can prevent us from being saved if we were destined to be saved, and nothing we do can prevent us from burning in the hellfires of eternal damnation if we were predestined to burn.

64

Is God just teasing us?

by joannadandy in

ok yesterday i was talking to my dad (moe's thread reminded me) he said something about how bad satan was...and said, yeah but "wasn't it eve and adam's fault?

i mean yeah satan laid out the sales pitch but they could have said no.

you know gone home, talked it over with god, it wasn't even that high pressured a sales pitch.

JosephAlward

BALLISTIC wrote: OK, but my God is not just infinately wise but he is infinity itself and therefore perfect. Him knowing everything is simply an intrinsic result of being everything.

JOE ALWARD:

Right. Your god would HAVE to know all of the future. The god of the Bible, however, evidently chose not to know the future.

64

Is God just teasing us?

by joannadandy in

ok yesterday i was talking to my dad (moe's thread reminded me) he said something about how bad satan was...and said, yeah but "wasn't it eve and adam's fault?

i mean yeah satan laid out the sales pitch but they could have said no.

you know gone home, talked it over with god, it wasn't even that high pressured a sales pitch.

JosephAlward

BALLISTIC wrote:

Omnipotence is not compatible with selective awareness, the two things are incompatible with one another. Either God is omnipotent or he isn't.

JOE ALWARD responds:

If God is all-powerful, then he has the power to do whatever he wishes, and that would include wishing not to look at some parts of the future.

64

Is God just teasing us?

by joannadandy in

ok yesterday i was talking to my dad (moe's thread reminded me) he said something about how bad satan was...and said, yeah but "wasn't it eve and adam's fault?

i mean yeah satan laid out the sales pitch but they could have said no.

you know gone home, talked it over with god, it wasn't even that high pressured a sales pitch.

JosephAlward

"God is not infinately wise if there are things he doesn't know"

JOE ALWARD responds:

If you wish to define "infinitely wise" to mean "knowing all things, past, present, and future," then of course you are correct. However, I take "infinitely wise" to mean "being incapable of making a mistake."

64

Is God just teasing us?

by joannadandy in

ok yesterday i was talking to my dad (moe's thread reminded me) he said something about how bad satan was...and said, yeah but "wasn't it eve and adam's fault?

i mean yeah satan laid out the sales pitch but they could have said no.

you know gone home, talked it over with god, it wasn't even that high pressured a sales pitch.

JosephAlward

JOANNADANDY writes,

My dad [said]

"Yes it's true God can see the future, but he can choose not to see it."

Have any of you heard this before?

JOE ALWARD responds:

Yes, I have, and it makes a lot of sense. If God chose to look into your future and know what you would do, you would have no choice but to do it, else God would have "known" something that would prove not to be so, and that's impossible for the infinitely wise God. Thus, your dad is saying that God chooses not to look into the future in order that man may have free will.

Edited by - JosephAlward on 8 December 2002 18:30:42

32

Women ministers

by Pleasuredome in

i recommend to you phoe'be our sister, who is a minister of the congregation that is in cen'chreae.

romans 16:1 .

i thought it was only men who are ministers?

JosephAlward

Cliff observed, "I had never read anywhere in the couple books I've read on Paul such an idea as that he was quoting false teachings, and not promoting them."

Joe Alward responds:

There's no evidence that Paul was merely reciting false teachings. Nowhere does Paul give his audience the slightest hint, the smallest warning, that he was not stating his own beliefs. For those who believe that Paul was guided or inspired by God when he gave his speeches, or wrote his letters, it is almost impossible to understand why God did not give Paul the good sense to caution his audience that they were hearing false teachings--if that's what they were--that should be rejected. Either God approved of what Paul was saying and therefore did not approve of women teaching, or else Paul's comments were not inspired by God. If the former, then women may not teach; if the latter, then the Bible is not the word of God in its totality.

32

Women ministers

by Pleasuredome in

i recommend to you phoe'be our sister, who is a minister of the congregation that is in cen'chreae.

romans 16:1 .

i thought it was only men who are ministers?

JosephAlward

Thanks to everyone for their contributions to this discussion. I would like to make it clear that I don't accept the Bible's teaching that women may not be the leader of a church. Because their sensitivity to the feelings of others is inherently greater than men's, I think women generally make better ministers than men. Nevertheless, I still believe that the preponderance of evidence shows that the Bible teaches that women are inferior and must not teach men. Evidence in support of my position, beyond what I have already presented in this thread, may be found in my articles

"Women Are Not the Glory of God," at

http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/women_in_the_bible.html

"Women May Not Teach Men," at

http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/silent_women.html

I would welcome further comment.

Kind Regards,

Joe

32

Women ministers

by Pleasuredome in

i recommend to you phoe'be our sister, who is a minister of the congregation that is in cen'chreae.

romans 16:1 .

i thought it was only men who are ministers?

JosephAlward

Craig wrote, "So you admit a woman can be a minister."

Joe Alward: Yes, but not the type of "minister" most people are concerned about. Women can "minister" to men in the sense of taking care of, or teaching, them, but Paul made it crystal clear that women could NOT stand up in church and teach men about Jesus and God. This type of "ministering" was totally forbidden by Paul. Thus, if we are to accept the teachings of the New Testament as our guide today, women today are not allowed to preach to men in church.

32

Women ministers

by Pleasuredome in

i recommend to you phoe'be our sister, who is a minister of the congregation that is in cen'chreae.

romans 16:1 .

i thought it was only men who are ministers?

JosephAlward

Craig wrote, "The point of this thread has to do with female ministers, not female teachers. While it is true that Paul forbids women to teach men in the congregation, that has NOTHING to do with whether women can be ministers."

Joe Alward responds:

I agree that Paul does not forbid women to give aid and comfort (minister) to others, and in this sense he seems not to forbid women to be this type of "minister." However, as you have noted, Paul forbids women to teach, and this would include not standing before a congregation and teaching its members about Jesus. If a women is forbidden to preach to men about God and Jesus, then she hardly could be called a "minister" in the traditional sense of the word.

Edited by - JosephAlward on 4 December 2002 23:42:38

32

Women ministers

by Pleasuredome in

i recommend to you phoe'be our sister, who is a minister of the congregation that is in cen'chreae.

romans 16:1 .

i thought it was only men who are ministers?

JosephAlward

In his address to the Corinthians, and in his letter to Timothy, Paul makes it clear that women are not allowed to teach men, and it is the man who is to do the instructing:

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach [didaskein], nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (1 Timothy 2:11-12)

In other words, Paul is saying, "I'd never let a woman teach man, for it was the woman, not the man, who led us all into a state of sin." Paul emphasizes in his Corinthians letter that women are not allowed to teach men--or to have any kind of authority of men, and states in his Timothy letter that the reason for this is that Adam was first, and since he was not deceived, he is the one who should have authority. Clearly, Paul didn't want women to teach men anywhere, any time; that's just as perfectly plain as any Christian doctrine can be. One can either believe that the Bible is the word of God, and that Paul speaks for God, and not have women be ministers in the church, or one can have have women as ministers and not believe that the Bible is the word of God, but one cannot have both.

Edited by - JosephAlward on 4 December 2002 18:5:42