Posts by gutted

33

Shouldn't have answered the phone just now

by Soldier77 in

i just answered the phone and it didn't phase me that caller id did not tell me who was calling.

well, it was an elder.... he wanted to know the usual interogation crap, where i've been, have i gone to the dc yet, when am i going, i will love it, etc, typical bullshit.

then he says, "i noticed you haven't turned in any time for last month, do you have any to report?

gutted

Soldier, I feel for you man. I'm in a similar boat, stopped meetings and service, but I did end up going to the DC in a different city beginning of July. After that I vowed never to go to another meeting or service arrangement in my life.

A newly appointed elder I believe was "assigned" to me called and I answered and also had that "DAMN IT" moment. I think he called because I took myself off the school and the overseer of that said we "would have a chat to encourage you".

All he said was he wanted to get together for a coffee and chat. I said sure, but that I was really busy and would call him to set up a time. Thanks to the advice on this board I did say that, that I would call HIM when I was ready. Of course I didn't and he left a message last night.

Now I do feel guilty, not because of the organization, but because I like this guy. He's a good guy and we've hung out before when he was just an MS.

I have nothing to say to an elder. I plan on not returning his call unless he keeps hounding me. I forsee them coming to my door one day too

On a positive note my goatee is coming in, how's yours?

23

Advice on introducing doubts to friend

by gutted in

i am asking you for your opinion/advice on questions or ideas to introduce to my friend to make him start doubting the wbts.

no doubt when he sees my new goatee it will be a bit unnerving for him, maybe i could use this as a starting point.

perhaps you have things that have worked others?

gutted

I was actually floored. We were having lunch the other day and he was the one that brought up the issue of 1975! He even said he read some of Crisis of Conscience and we discussed that a bit.

After that I basically laid it all out there, the false prophecies, high cult control aspects, how I don't think a religion should be like a business etc. I told him I know the witnesses are wrong and that I am going to fade.

His main gripe is it's either the witnesses or no organized religion at all. I totally agreed. I told him about being a Christian but without an organizational structure, but he can't reconcile that with how it was in the first century. I'm reading In Search of Christian Freedom and hopefully have some better ideas from the bible I can share with him.

33

Music that represents our :"Waking Up"

by Scarred for life in

jw
friends

we sometimes have had threads where people post songs that have a lot of meaning to them after leaving the jw cult.

one song that is frequently mentioned is hotel california.

there is another song that is mentioned frequently that is from the last 5 years or so.

gutted

Two songs that I like and identify with are:

1. R.E.M. - Losing My Religion

2. Metallica - Leper Messiah

The second one is for the metal heads out there, it's a very heavy song, I always applied it to "Christendom" before but now it envelops most religions.

Lyrics:

Spineless from the start, sucked into the part
circus comes to town, you play the lead clown
Please, please
spreading his disease, living by his story
Knees, knees
falling to your knees, suffer for his glory
You will

Time for lust, time for lie
time to kiss your life goodbye
Send me money, send me green
Heaven you will meet
Make a contribution
and you'll get a better seat

Bow to Leper Messiah

Marvel at his tricks, need your Sunday fix
blind devotion came, rotting your brain
Chain, chain
Join the endless chain, taken by his glamour
Fame, Fame
Infection is the game, stinking drunk with power
We see

Bow to Leper Messiah

Witchery, weakening
Sees the sheep are gathering
set the trap, hypnotize
now you follow

Lie.

23

Advice on introducing doubts to friend

by gutted in

i am asking you for your opinion/advice on questions or ideas to introduce to my friend to make him start doubting the wbts.

no doubt when he sees my new goatee it will be a bit unnerving for him, maybe i could use this as a starting point.

perhaps you have things that have worked others?

gutted

Well I did talk to my friend last night. For better or worse I focused on how poorly "judicial" matters are handled and try to stear it more towards the organization being the culprit then the "imperfect people" excuse. He did go into JW mode, with "go talk to the Elder that called you, go to meetings". I also talked about how I feel pressured/guilted into things instead of doing it out of love, and I don't feel it's right. He excused it by saying it is more cultural "oh the brothers in Mexico are so much better".

But at the end he relaxed and told me about the issue he had in his previous congregation and the current one. I did also mention to him "you might have to make a choice about our friendship" and that I haven't gone to meetings for the last while. It was pretty emotional, but he was a good friend about it, so far. I see real potential in exposing everything to him but it is such a fine balancing act.

I hope to make more inroads using questions like suggested.

23

Advice on introducing doubts to friend

by gutted in

i am asking you for your opinion/advice on questions or ideas to introduce to my friend to make him start doubting the wbts.

no doubt when he sees my new goatee it will be a bit unnerving for him, maybe i could use this as a starting point.

perhaps you have things that have worked others?

gutted

The take home message to me is simple: Accepting that my JW relatives and former JW friends are free to decide for themselves what they want to do with their lives. I have faith in people's ability to work stuff out for themselves. The proof of that is the large numbers of JWs who do leave and/or fade.

I'm totally onboard with allowing people to choose what they wish to do with their lives, that's the only reasonable course IMO. But is it in your view then useless to respectfully point out if a person is making poor life choices? I don't know about you but I did find my family helpful (yes even under the JW umbrella) in making me see the wrong in taking drugs/drinking too much and providing support. I also find articles, books, whatever the media on peoples insights and experiences invaluable as far as what choices would be best for me, one reason why I'm really liking this forum. Also I believe it is motivation for people who start and maintain sites like this one, freeminds etc. I think people need "slight proddings" in helping them broaden their view, and therefore make informed choices. Hence the desire to present these things to my friend in a respectful manner.

Contrary to Steve Hassan, I do not see the Watchtower as a prison so much as a tightly controlled "child-care centre". It suits people who don't want to fully grow up and take responsibility for their lives, but who want seemingly "bigger" and "wiser" adults to make decisions for them. That's actually the way, large numbers of humans in general are anyway. And if that's what people choose, that's fine with me.

That's quite a generalization. No doubt it appeals to some of the people who "want others to make decisions for them", but not all. I think it has more to do with indoctrination and guilt/fear which inhibits people from making their own choices as far as cults go. Once they are out then they can truly decide if they want to be in a "child-care centre". I for one was raised in it, so I didn't have a choice, but thankfully to sites like this one I now do.

9

Are you still programmed by the borg?

by asilentone in

unfortunately, my answer is yes, it takes time to deprogram everything, probably never to the fullest.

.

gutted

Still am. I think it hits hardest when thinking of other peoples impressions of me that I have stopped going to meetings, service etc. It is just another guilt/fear tactic that was taught. As far as doctrine, that was very easy to deconstruct. I think it's the feelings/emotions tied in to certain phrases or ideas that is the real challenge. I have to say it is getting better day by day.

23

Advice on introducing doubts to friend

by gutted in

i am asking you for your opinion/advice on questions or ideas to introduce to my friend to make him start doubting the wbts.

no doubt when he sees my new goatee it will be a bit unnerving for him, maybe i could use this as a starting point.

perhaps you have things that have worked others?

gutted

Steve, I want my friend to be free of the WBTS clutches as I (almost) am. I think it's natural to want to dissuade our close friends and family from harmful beliefs. I think that was one of the motivations, if not the main one, behind Steve Hassan writting Combating Cult Mind Control.

I also like Blondies approach. I won't force anything on my friend, as I wouldn't want that either. But when he has doubts, which he does, I will encourage him to explore them instead of saying the old "oh it's just peoples imperfect nature" as the usual JW cop out. I hope one day I can introduce CoC and CCMC to him.

Thanks guys!

23

Advice on introducing doubts to friend

by gutted in

i am asking you for your opinion/advice on questions or ideas to introduce to my friend to make him start doubting the wbts.

no doubt when he sees my new goatee it will be a bit unnerving for him, maybe i could use this as a starting point.

perhaps you have things that have worked others?

gutted

Hi all,

I am asking you for your opinion/advice on questions or ideas to introduce to my friend to make him start doubting the WBTS. No doubt when he sees my new goatee it will be a bit unnerving for him, maybe I could use this as a starting point. Perhaps you have things that have worked others? I don't want to get his back up against the wall though, or in that defensive JW mode.

This and another close friend are the only ones I want to stay close to, but I realise I might lose them as I have stopped going to all meetings/service. They'll find out eventually that I have. One is in my hall, one isn't.

Thanks.

25

Remain Close to the Governing Body DC

by gutted in

i just finished all 3 days of the dc and, for what it's worth, wanted to get down some of the highlights i enjoyed.

i went with family and i only did it for them, and hope to never attend another assembly ever again.. .

the whole thing was pretty boring and uncomfortable due to the stadium style seating which doesn't favour my long legs and ac being blasted too high.. .

gutted

You should have heeded the advice and NOT come here. You SHOULD have strengthend your faith by study of the faithful slave´s material. It is lifesaving.

Bane, why are you here then? You are directly disobeying the counsel and direction of the faithful slave. You are being a hypocrite.

To the rest of you, thanks again for the support.

20

gutted - its July, are you growing your goatee yet?

by Soldier77 in

from my previous thread on allowing beards/goatee's and the pact that you brought up.

i've started my goatee this past weekend!

came into work this morning and one guy i worked with looks at me and goes, "wtf is that?

gutted

Also this is an invitation to any other brothers who are fading to do the same.