The first time a very small seed of doubt was sowed was during memorial season. I was trying to think of how I could use the Bible to show my friend why the "other sheep" don't partake of the emblems. And then I realized I couldn't do it!
Posts by Rydor
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10What initial did make you have doubts about the "truth"? Was it apostasy?
by Joey Jo-Jo inthis question is different from what made you leave.. as for me, i wanted to take one step further, to be more involved in the organization, but i had some very old small doubts, about other religions, so i started my liberal study on religion, i read books from other churchs to reffute them, but in fact created more doubts about the org..
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Yaweh is a nasty bully.
by snare&racket ini can't believe i used to worship such a horrid deity.
why did we never question it when he was so obviously evil.
if you disagree even after leaving, there is no way to explain away these commands/laws/ condoning actions of this disgusting man made god.. exodus 21:2-6. leviticus 25:44-46. exodus 21:7-11. proverbs 29:21. proverbs 29:19. zechariah 13:7-9 .
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Rydor
The next time you hear someone compare the god of the bible to a loving father, ask them if it's okay to subject your child to ongoing psychological torture in the name of "discipline."
" 14 Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil [ a ] spirit from the LORD tormented him. 15 Saul’s attendants said to him, “See, an evil spirit from God is tormenting you." 1 Sam 16:14,15
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New Mini-Survey: Successful Witnessing
by Juan Viejo2 injust wanted to let you know that there is a new mini-survey now online at jwsurvey.org that covers the subject of "successful witnessing.".
as a witness, did you actually ever convince someone to become a jw?
did you ever actually convert someone you met going door-to-door?.
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Rydor
Interesting idea! Thank you for doing this.
Personally, I'm: "I progressed someone to baptism, but they were already involved with the organization."
(He was a troubled teen whose family had been attending meetings in a different part of the state.)
I grew up in the org, but was only an official baptized member for seven years, so fortunately I didn't have too much opportunity to spread the lies.
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The seven trumpet blasts of Revelation & the Millions campaign.
by transhuman68 inone of the jehovahs witness doctrines that many of us have had trouble believing is that the seven angels trumpet blasts described in revelation applied to events that occurred in the 1920s at seven assemblies held around the world at the time when judge rutherford was the president of the watchtower society.. the revelation climax book (1988) contains this summary on page 173:.
highlights of jehovah's trumpetlike judgment proclamations.
1922 cedar point, ohio: a challenge to christendom's leaders in religion, politics, and big business to justify their failure to bring peace, prosperity, and happiness.
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Rydor
Last time we studied the Revelation book I think I was in my teens so my critical thinking abilities were not well-developed. Looking back on it now, I can't believe full-grown adults actually swallowed that drivel! And to think they expected us to place this at the door! I just can't imagine any householder accepting the book, reading the book, and then saying "Yes! This is exactly what I've been searching for!"
One of these days I'm going to ask a Witness, "When John talks about these terrifying, cataclysmic events....the earth being burned up, stars falling, water turning to blood, a third of mankind dying.....Do you REALLY believe he was talking about....conventions held in the 1920's??"
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This Guy is One of My Favorite Christians: John Shelby Spong
by OnTheWayOut inhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwnmj5h1zds.
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Rydor
Thanks for posting those videos, OTW. I really like this guy's attitude! And I think he's absolutely right that Christianity must change or it will die. Christianity's historically-held views on issues such as homosexuality and eternal torment have no place in a world that's becoming increasingly more enlightened and educated.
Perhaps I'm being too narrow-minded here (and forgive me if this is addressed in the 52 min video) but why is John Spong a Christian? I mean, he argues that fundamental portions of the Bible are to be regarded as barbaric nonsense, which I agree to be true. It follows then, that the Bible is not of divine origin. And everything we know about Jesus comes from this same flawed source! So why should we believe in him at all?
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Rydor
I'll simplify the Watchtower for you.
1.) We are always right.
2.) If we are ever wrong, see rule # 1.
I "simplified" my life by cutting all ties with the organization, and truly Jehovah has poured his rich blessing upon the new arrangement.
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Mass Apostasy- Sign of the Lords presence
by mankkeli inthis quote is from the watchtower 1980 8/1.
"are you profoundly shocked and unduly disturbed when you see or hear of a christian you know yielding to doubts, cooling off and perhaps even becoming rebellious to the point of deserting the christian congregation and trying to draw others away with him?
if so, you may be comforted in knowing that, sad as such occurrences may be, the scriptures forewarn us that they will happen.. among the various causes of apostasy, one of the foremost is unquestionably a lackoffaith through doubt.
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Rydor
When a child learns there's no Santa Claus, how does he/she feel?
Those of us raised in the organization cannot relate of course, but if I had to guess I would say "sad and disillusioned." "Joyful?" Not a chance. Yet everyone here would agree that it is better for that child to know the truth, even if it causes some temporary sadness.
It's the same with ex-witnesses. When they find out "The truth about the Truth" does it cause a temporary "loss of joy?" Sure. But are we better off not believing and dedicating our entire lives to a fairy tale? You bet.
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Are Jehovahs Witnesses a Cult?
by mankkeli inthis is an excerpt from the 1994 watchtower, february 15. in the entire article, the watchtower tries to debunk any claim of their cultism.
see how they go about it.. " would it be accurate to refer to jehovahs witnesses as a religious group with radical views and practices that clash with what is accepted as normal social behavior?
are jehovahs witnesses a cult?.
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Rydor
Genuine question Rydor . . . in your opinion, what elements are missing with JW's, that are required for them to be "full-blown"?
Well I've read Steve Hassan's book and some of the more extreme elements found among the Moonies and other cults are not found within the Watchtower. For example, in the Moonies Hassan mentions how cult members are kept physically distant from their family members and have to ask permission to go anywhere. JW's are not physically isolated and can go anywhere they please (provided of course they're not missing meetings!)
Also in some cults members are strongly encouraged to give all their entire bank accounts to the cult and thus are left completely poor. (The WTBTS of course encourages donations for the "world wide work" but they don't go to that extreme. At least when I was in, I never felt any strong pressure to give financially; it may vary by region.)
In some cults the leader is treated as divine and outright worshipped. While it's true that the Governing Body certainly holds god-like power over the rank and file, I bet less than 1% of the membership could tell you the names of all the current GB members. So that "creature worship" isn't really there in modern times. (Early 1900s is of course another story.)
It's funny, last Friday I actually met a girl who had been raised in a Moonie family in Japan. I shared with her my background and we had a really interesting conversation. She truly believed that her mother died prematurely because she worked herself to death in the cult. So compared to her experiences, I had to admit that while I may have had it bad, she had it worse.
Look what you made me do! I just wrote a post defending the Watchtower! I think I have to go shower now...
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Are Jehovahs Witnesses a Cult?
by mankkeli inthis is an excerpt from the 1994 watchtower, february 15. in the entire article, the watchtower tries to debunk any claim of their cultism.
see how they go about it.. " would it be accurate to refer to jehovahs witnesses as a religious group with radical views and practices that clash with what is accepted as normal social behavior?
are jehovahs witnesses a cult?.
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Rydor
Perhaps not a full-blown cult like the Unification Church (Moonies) or the People's Temple, but many of the elements common to cults are present among Jehovah's Witnesses. Go read Steve Hassan's book, "Combatting Cult Mind Control." He never mentions Jehovah's Witnesses once in the book, but if you examine the common characteristics of cults, you'll find that most, if not all of them, are found in the Watchtower organization:
The Doctrine is Reality
There is no room in a mind control environment for regarding the group's beliefs as mere theory, or as a way to interpret reality or to seek reality. The doctrine IS reality. ...cult doctrine always requires that a person distrust his own self. The doctrine becomes the 'master program' for all thoughts, feelings, and actions....
Reality is Black and White, Good Versus Evil
Even the most complex cult doctrines ultimately reduce reality into two basic poles black versus white' good versus evil;...us verses them.... The 'huge conspiracies' working to thwart the group are, of course, proof of its tremendous importance....
Elitist Mentality
Members are made to feel part of an elite corps of mankind. This feeling of being special, of participating in the most important acts in human history with a vanguard of committed believers, is strong emotional glue to keep people sacrificing and working hard. ...As a community, they feel they have been chosen (by God, history, or some other supernatural force) to lead mankind out of darkness into a new age of enlightenment...
Group Will over Individual Will
In all destructive cults the self must submit to the group. The 'whole purpose' must be the focus; the 'self purpose' must be subordinated....Absolute obedience to superiors is one of the most universal themes in cults. Individuality is bad. Conformity is good. ...
Strict Obedience Modeling the Leader
A new member is often induced to abandon his former behavior patterns and become 'dedicated' by being paired with an older cult member who serves as a model for him to imitate. ...One reason why a group of cultists may strike even a naive outsider as spooky or weird is that everyone has similar odd mannerisms, clothing styles, and modes of speech. ...
Happiness through Good Performance
...The cult member learns that love is not unconditional but depends on good performance....Competitions are used to inspire and shame members into being more productive....Relationships are usually superficial within these groups because sharing deep personal feelings, especially negative ones, is highly discouraged....
Manipulation through Fear and Guilt
The cult member comes to live within a narrow corridor of fear, guilt, and shame. Problems are always the fault of the member and are due to HIS weak faith, HIS lack of understanding, ... He perpetually feels guilty for not meeting standards....
No Way Out
In a destructive cult, there is never a legitimate reason for leaving. Unlike non-cult organizations that recognize a person's inherent right to choose to move on, mind control groups make it very clear that there is no legitimate way to leave. Members are told that the only reasons why people leave are weakness, insanity, temptation, brainwashing (by deprogrammers), pride, sin, and so on. ... Although cult members will often say 'Show me a way that is better than mine and I will quit,' they are not allowed the time or mental tools to prove that statement to themselves. They are locked in a psychological prison." (from the book Combatting Cult Mind Control, by Steven Hassan, Park Street Press, pp. 78-84)
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Why So Many Young People Are Leaving The Watchtower
by Jeremy C ini have been giving a lot of thought to the young people who are leaving the watchtower organization in recent years.
last night, i was reading the thread posted by jwfacts a while back in which he provided some statistics and graphs showing the rapidly declining growth in the watchtower.
one factor that was discussed at length was the high number of young people who do not stay in the organization.
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Rydor
Excellent post JeremyC. Thank you!
I was just reminded of a time when my dad and I arrived early to one of the District Assemblies. As we walked toward the stadium we saw a little boy of about 8 years old running, literally running as fast as he could away from the stadium. As he ran we both heard him shout, "I HATE THIS PLACE!!" At the time we both found it funny, but thinking about it now... To make a child that young sit in one spot for 6 hours and listen to dry sermons on topics he neither understands nor cares about, and then reprimand him when he gets restless....well kinda borders on abuse doesn't it?