Rydor

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Posts by Rydor

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  15

  Atheiests....Did you enjoy the book In Search of Christian Freedom?

  by Diest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was not in the mood to be a christian, even before reading coc.

  do you think there is a benifit to reading iscf?

  did it solve much about the jws in your mind?.

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  Rydor

  Yes.

  The chapter on why the Bible does NOT mandate door to door field service (as practiced by JW's today) is worth the read alone. He lays out the facts in such a simple, clear manner that I don't see how any JW could possibly counter it. And I absolutely LOVED the chapter on logical fallacies and how the Watchtower publications employ them. As a born in cult member, I can honestly say I was never trained to think critically so that chapter was a breath of fresh air.

  I am a former Christian, now agnostic. The purpose of ISOCF isn't really to convert you to being a Christian; it kind of assumes you already believe in the Bible. ISOCF is more about how the Watchtower organization oversteps what the Bible says and adds unnecessary baggage to one's belief system. To achieve this goal Ray naturally has to do a lot of "debunking" work, which he does skillfully and without a trace of antagonism.

  Even though ISOCF is JW-centric, Ray still brings out a lot of very interesting principles that apply to other religions and secular organizations. For example, he discusses at length a recurring pattern throughout history: As an organization grows larger, regardless of what its original purpose might have been, the number one priority will eventually become self-preservation, even if that means trampling its founding principles. Thought provoking stuff.
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  22

  TRY AGAIN - QUESTION: HOW HAVE FRANZ'S BOOKS HELPED YOU?

  by binadub in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  apologies all.

  my questions did not appear in the body of the first post and i didn't know the reason.

  thanks leavingwt for informing me that another drawback of the new internet explorer is that it is not compatible with jwd.

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  Rydor

  1) They've been huge. Learning about the WT's dirty laundry isn't what ultimately got me out, but it was still very eye opening.

  2) Yes, although I don't believe it's accurate to say Jonsson's "chronology arguments" undermine the Watchtowers 1914 teaching. ARCHAEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE does that. I can't emphasize enough the point that the Watchtower cannot produce a single scrap of archaeological evidence to support their timeline. They can only attempt to weaken the arguments of the opposition. Note that when I say "opposition" I mean, quite literally, every single scholar on this earth who has knowledge of the neo-Babylonian period.

  3) Huh? What a weird question. When it comes to religious matters, your starting point shouldn't be "What is my personal preference?" It should be, "What is true and factual?" In my case, no religion has presented anything that I consider worthy of adding to my belief system.

  4) No

  5) The internet. Mainly because it's so convenient and easy to look up stuff from the privacy of your home. Although the desire must be there. They must already be doubting or questioning something. Then sites like jwfacts, etc. can help them put the pieces together.

  6) Um... Gerrit Losch, Sam Herd, Guy Pierce, Stephen Lett, Geoffrey Jackson, Anthony Morris, there's probably 1 or 2 others, but I cannot remember. Oh wait, was I supposed to say "the remaining members of the anointed currently on the earth?"
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  42

  Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 12-04-2011 WT Study (RECREATION)

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  wants us to enjoy life?

  4. why do we need to set limits on the kind of recreation.

  well to determine in advance whether some.

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  Rydor

  Okay, I give myself five points. Don't know if I was right about the pictures though. Hey this game is kinda fun!

  I can't believe they devoted an entire paragraph to driving home the point that "Different people will enjoy different types of recreation." Was this article written for pre-teens?

  I'm a little surprised field service wasn't mentioned at all, though perhaps they'll get to that in the follow-up article.
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  42

  Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 12-04-2011 WT Study (RECREATION)

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  wants us to enjoy life?

  4. why do we need to set limits on the kind of recreation.

  well to determine in advance whether some.

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  Rydor

  Didn't even read the article yet. I think I'm going to try to guess the main ideas just from looking at the title.

  All Christians need rest. God rested. Jesus and his disciples rested at times during his ministry.

  No matter what form of recreation you choose, make sure it does not interfere with "Kingdom" activities (matt 6:33)

  Satan will try to use recreation to stumble you. Avoid:

  Rap, Rock, any type of music or movies with "suggestive themes." Perhaps an account of a young witness who found his/her life was enriched after leaving behind that type of entertainment and then becoming a pioneer.

  Extreme life-endangering sports (skydiving, etc.) that show a lack of respect for life and our Creator

  INTERNET! Just. Stay. Away.

  Extra-curricular activities. Biblical accounts of Shechem/Dina, or maybe the Moabites inciting the Israelites to commit spiritual adultery. You know 1 Cor (15:33) has to be quoted somewhere in this article

  Kids you may be tempted to hang out with worldly kids because of there being no others your age in the congregation, or if there are they're too bizarre to hang out with. Why not befriend one of the older ones in the congregation? Surely you can benefit from their wealth of experiences in "The Truth." Hey it worked for David and Jonathan right?

  Best source of recreation? FIELD SERVICE! Hey remember the "light load" Jesus promised? So. Freaking. Refreshing!!!! Include quote from some non-existent publisher who says the most fun they've ever had is field service.

  Okay and for pictures....

  Pic of witnesses at a gathering dressed up in something only slightly less formal than meeting clothes. Perhaps someone has a guitar and kingdom songs are being sung

  Obligatory pic of some wild-looking rockstar or gangsta rapper.

  Pic of high school coach urging young JW to join the school sports team. The look on the kid's face suggests he's considering the offer. Cautionary caption beneath.

  Pic of the "friends" in field service having the time of their lives!

  Alright, now I'll go read it. Let's see how I did!
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  9

  Yup. They got some balls in this latest public tower

  by therevealer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the reference to camping and what about this.

  what motivated a tobacco farmer to change not only his occupation but also.

  his deeply held religious beliefs?

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  Rydor

  I seem to remember hearing awhile back that they held stock in Phillip Morris. True? If so, is that still the case?
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  64

  Starting to read Crisis of Conscience....

  by confuzzled777 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after almost 2 years of being wrongfully disfellowshipped and over a year after finding this site....i am starting to read crisis of conscience.

  i will not lie....i am a bit nervous as to what information i will find in the book.

  i have a strong feeling that i will end up crying through most of it as i will start to see the truth about the "truth".

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  Rydor

  The first time I read Crisis of Conscience was nothing short of thrilling. It took me less than a week to read and words can't describe what a revelation it was...

  Make sure you read his follow-up book, "In Search of Christian Freedom." As much as I enjoyed reading CoC, I still wasn't totally convinced that the Watchtower was not God's organization. Ray's second book was the one that sealed it for me. It's long and can be dry, but it's packed with great information.
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  22

  Why are letters from John and Paul included in the Bible?

  by Lore in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i don't see much difference between paul writing a letter to the corinthian congregation and the gb writing a letter to the timbucktoo congregation.. is what paul wrote to the ephesians just as fallible and subject to 'new light' as the letters the wts writes to congregations today?.

  if a letter from the governing body today which says it's immoral to have an organ transplant can be dead wrong and changed later.

  can the letter from paul which says it's wrong to eat blood be dead wrong and subject to change later?.

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  Rydor

  Also Paul makes a point in one place at least, of saying 'this is from God, not me..." and then, "this is from me, not God"

  Ah yes, the verse in question would be this one:

  To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. 12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. (1 Cor 7:10-12)

  And later this one:

  Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy. 26 Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is. (1 Cor 7:25,26)

  I think the latter quotation is laughable. Far more people are born into Christianity, than those who are converted as adults. If all Christians were to heed this supposedly inspired counsel, the total number of adherents would probably flatline, or start dropping!
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  2

  college info

  by man in black in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this past week i have noticed the witnesses sitting in the student area of the college where i work.. the people sitting there are young, and seemingly full of the haughty, "we are right" mentality.. the school prints a paper and i was considering writing a letter to the editors about how the wtbts discourages people from attending.

  college.

  i feel that it would make a big impact, since they are sitting there, looking for new members at a college !.

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  Rydor

  Well, to get you started JWfacts has a section on this:

  Watchtower and Higher Education
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  22

  Why are letters from John and Paul included in the Bible?

  by Lore in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i don't see much difference between paul writing a letter to the corinthian congregation and the gb writing a letter to the timbucktoo congregation.. is what paul wrote to the ephesians just as fallible and subject to 'new light' as the letters the wts writes to congregations today?.

  if a letter from the governing body today which says it's immoral to have an organ transplant can be dead wrong and changed later.

  can the letter from paul which says it's wrong to eat blood be dead wrong and subject to change later?.

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  Rydor

  My opinion would be that followers in a religion have a tendency to look up to the leadership. At first they view them with deep respect, and over time that respect progresses into reverence, and sometimes even outright worship. I think we see the same thing today with the JWs. Though they would probably never admit it, I'll bet the majority of the rank and file witnesses view any publications coming out of New York as of divine origin, deserving of the same consideration you would give to the Bible.

  As for the divinity of Paul's letters, I used to believe that they were right from the mouth of God. That all changed when I stopped to consider this verse:

  "When you come, bring the cloak that I left with Carpus at Troas, and my scrolls, especially the parchments." - 2 Timothy 4:13

  The idea that God whispered that verse into Paul's ear for the benefit of all mankind just seemed too ridiculous to believe!
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  36

  Which Beliefs and Doctrines Helped Push You Out?

  by ilikecheese in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  okay, so this is my first post, but i've been lurking here for months and months.

  i have to say this is a very informative and hilarious site.

  you guys are great to read!

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  Rydor

  Well my exit journey started with reading both of Ray Franz' books (Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom). However, I have to emphasize that, the only reason I was even willing to pick up the books was that I had been out of the organization (disfellowshipped) for nearly two years. So essentially I had a good "drying out" period. Otherwise I never would've read them.

  The line of reasoning that finally got me out was basically the same one Don Cameron uses in "Captives of a Concept", although I didn't read that book until much later. In short, it goes like this:

  The most important doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses is that their organization was selected by Jesus in 1919 to be his "channel of communication" in fulfillment of Matthew 24:45. If this doctrine is false, then all other teachings of the Watchtower are invalid and don't even need to be considered. In order for the Watchtower to have passed Jesus' inspection and receive his approval, they had to have been teaching the "right things" at the right "time."

  Once you've established this, you simply have to examine what was being taught by the organization at the time when Jesus supposedly made his inspection (1914-1919) and ask yourself, "Does it makes sense that Jesus would have selected them based on these teachings?"

  If you make this examination, what you'll find is virtually everything that was taught during that time period is now considered to be "old light," which is a fancy way of saying FALSE. So ask yourself, if the majority of the Witnesses' teachings were false and later had to be altered, how can you say that Jesus was pleased with them and gave his approval? In addition, it was about that time that "The Finished Mystery" was published, which is chock full of nonsensical, downright hilarious scriptural interpretations that, if made public today, would cause the organization no end of embarrassment.

  Yes it's true....for all the "apostate" information I was reading, the final nail in the coffin, the moment when it finally dawned on me that this was not God's organization, came from reading the organization's own literature.

  Also the doctrinal changes are a big one. The easiest one to point out is their interpretation of Romans 13:1, the superior authorities. In Russell's time, they correctly interpreted it as referring to earthly governments. Rutherford comes along and says "Oh no that's a teaching of evil Christendom; the superior authorities are really Jehovah God and his Christ." And then after Rutherford's death it gets changed back to the original (and correct) interpretation. This is a case where the whole "Oh but the light gets brighter!" line of reasoning totally falls apart.

  "But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that gets cappriciously switched on and off by a group of senile men in Brooklyn, until you die of old age with unfulfilled hopes." Proverbs 4:18 (NWT)