If anyone wants to add a comment to this thread, please add it to the following link instead of this one.... (It's the same original post but visible for Internet Explorer users.)
SweetBabyCheezits
JoinedPosts by SweetBabyCheezits
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SBCheezit's Judicial Hearing - My EPIC FAIL
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11
SBCheezit's Judicial Hearing - My EPIC FAIL
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SweetBabyCheezits
Baltar, there was only one techie elder in the room. The worst part is I actually envisioned him busting me but expected him to do it at the beginning, not the end. I was prepared to the point that, had he asked to look at my phone at the beginning I would've told him no and instead offered to leave it outside.
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SBCheezits Judicial Hearing - My EPIC FAIL (REPOST for IE users)
by SweetBabyCheezits in(note: i apologize to the internet explorer users.
you probably can't see my first epic fail thread because i used firefox to post.
there's still some kind of glitch between a plugin i'm running, firefox posts, and ie.).
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SweetBabyCheezits
TS, that's an excellent question. I hope to get to the bottom of that as well.
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SBCheezits Judicial Hearing - My EPIC FAIL (REPOST for IE users)
by SweetBabyCheezits in(note: i apologize to the internet explorer users.
you probably can't see my first epic fail thread because i used firefox to post.
there's still some kind of glitch between a plugin i'm running, firefox posts, and ie.).
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SweetBabyCheezits
Ymomma, part of me wonders if they aren't contacting the branch to seek further instructions since I have a sacred recording. I really don't know why we haven't heard anything yet.
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SBCheezit's Judicial Hearing - My EPIC FAIL
by SweetBabyCheezits in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> <o:targetscreensize>1024x768</o:targetscreensize> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><!
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[endif][if gte mso 10]> <mce:style><!
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SweetBabyCheezits
I would have kept my phone in a suite pocket or something. Big mistake leaving it in there. Also, although you would not have heard their private discussion, a better alternative would have been a small digital recorder. Man, how crazy that they would feel entitled to mess with your personal effects.
Yeah, that was my thinking when I used my iPhone to record it, that they wouldn't dare touch my belongings. I'm still trying to figure out whether I should call them out on going through my stuff.
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HELP REQUEST - Judicial Committee Hearing tonight!
by SweetBabyCheezits ini hate to ask you good folks to jump around but the first post in the thread below explains why i'm going into the jc meeting, hence the basis for my questions below.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/198636/1/reply-to-judicial-committee-question-thenoblelodge.
i have no idea how to present my witnesses.
they've already agreed to show up.
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SweetBabyCheezits
Dang. Alright had to repost using Chrome so Internet Explorer users could see it....
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SBCheezits Judicial Hearing - My EPIC FAIL (REPOST for IE users)
by SweetBabyCheezits in(note: i apologize to the internet explorer users.
you probably can't see my first epic fail thread because i used firefox to post.
there's still some kind of glitch between a plugin i'm running, firefox posts, and ie.).
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SweetBabyCheezits
(NOTE: I apologize to the Internet Explorer users. You probably can't see my first epic fail thread because I used Firefox to post. There's still some kind of glitch between a plugin I'm running, Firefox posts, and IE.)
This is a continuation of my original post regarding the JC I recently attended.... (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/198681/4/HELP-REQUEST-Judicial-Committee-Hearing-tonight)
My wife and I arrived at the hall on time to find five (5) elders waiting for us. Only one of my witnesses was able to show up in person but the others knew what was going on.
Now before we walked into the hall, I took out my iPhone, opened the Voice Memo app, started recording, and switched my screen off. I walked in with my phone, keys, and wallet in one hand and my laptop and notepad in the other. Before I sat down, I placed my personal effects on the table as nonchalantly as possible, with keys on top of the pile. (I tend to do this wherever I go anyway since I hate to have wallet, keys, and phone in pockets when I sit down. I figured it wouldn't be too suspicious.)
I put the laptop on the table and asked the chairman if it would be okay if I used it to take notes since I'm faster at typing. He said that would be fine as long as there was no audio recording software running. I replied that I wouldn't have anything running but a simple notepad app, to which he nodded in approval. (This may have been deceptive but I felt I had little choice if I wanted an accurate record of the whole meeting.) At that, he called on another elder for the opening prayer and my wife and I bowed our heads out of respect for them.
As soon as the prayer ended, the one elder at the table who is tech savvy (who, I believe, also owns an iPhone) asked me to use a pen/paper instead of the laptop. He made some comment about "electronic devices" and I nodded, closed my laptop, and put it on the floor behind me. At that, the meeting began.
The chairman started out by telling us what we were being 'charged' with and explaining that apostasy isn't limited to those who protest and carry signs outside convention centers. He gave us the Society's definition – a “standing away from God” - and asked how we felt about that. We both expressed, more or less, shock that our rather private (aside from parents) doubts were being used to force us into our out of the Organization.
After that, the chairman asked if we had any witness testimony that we wanted to submit (and he was aware that we did). I called in my witness, who was able to honestly testify that I refused to discuss specific doubts with a group of friends when we went snowboarding. He also added that he’d never heard of anyone else having knowledge of our doubts and that we seemed to keep any different beliefs to ourselves. Again, his testimony will probably make little difference in our verdict but HE knows what’s happening, along with several others. My hope is that he (they) will recognize the injustice.
After that, the questioning began. We did our best to take a “we have doubts” stance instead of sharing our full spectrum of disbelief. Some questions included:
· Do you believe this is God’s spirit-directed organization?
· Do you accept the bible as God’s word?
· What will you teach your children?
· Have you celebrated any holidays or birthdays?
· How do you feel about the blood policy?
· What if an unbeliever asks what you believe about a subject in which you disagree with the Society?
At one point, my wife brought up the July 2009 AW article, Is it wrong to change from the religion of your family?…or something like that… in which a double standard is VERY clear. One of the elders said, “Yeah, but that’s talking about people who want to learn THE TRUTH.” I stopped trying to defend anything at that point. Why I strayed from "we have doubts", I don't know.
This lasted a couple of hours and then they asked us to step out while they deliberated. We stepped out and I made a crucial mistake: I left my phone unattended. About 15 minutes after the deliberation began the door opened and the chairman stalked out, shoved my iPhone into my hands and said, “I really don’t appreciate you doing that. Now it’s going to take a lot longer to reach a decision.” WOW. BUSTED! You could tell he was livid inside… and yet he contained it very well. (My wife commented about his neck and eyes bulging when he came out.) I looked at my iPhone and noticed the Voice Memo app was no longer running but they also couldn't get to my files because I had the screen lock password enabled. That meant they couldn't delete it.
Honestly, I felt really bad because I think the chairman has a kind heart and intentions. But I had no other way of ensuring an accurate record of what was said. I explained my reasons for secretly recording the hearing but he wouldn’t listen. He did soften his expression a bit but told us to go on home since there wouldn’t be an answer anytime soon.
Even though I know the WTS is wrong, I felt incredibly bad about deceiving him and (some of) the others. I feel no regret for recording it, though.
More on this later or I’ll never get any of it posted… (We still don’t have a verdict, BTW.)
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SweetBabyCheezits
I'll bet Terry Jones would know what to do. Who's up for a conference call?
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HELP REQUEST - Judicial Committee Hearing tonight!
by SweetBabyCheezits ini hate to ask you good folks to jump around but the first post in the thread below explains why i'm going into the jc meeting, hence the basis for my questions below.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/198636/1/reply-to-judicial-committee-question-thenoblelodge.
i have no idea how to present my witnesses.
they've already agreed to show up.
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SweetBabyCheezits
Okay, added new post about our JC hearing...
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/198851/1/SBCheezits-Judicial-Hearing-My-EPIC-FAIL#3735577
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11
SBCheezit's Judicial Hearing - My EPIC FAIL
by SweetBabyCheezits in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> <o:targetscreensize>1024x768</o:targetscreensize> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><!
[endif][if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-us</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp /> <w:dontbreakconstrainedforcedtables /> <w:dontvertalignintxbx /> <w:word11kerningpairs /> <w:cachedcolbalance /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="--" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!
[endif][if gte mso 10]> <mce:style><!
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SweetBabyCheezits
This is a continuation of my original post regarding the JC I recently attended.... (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/198681/4/HELP-REQUEST-Judicial-Committee-Hearing-tonight)
My wife and I arrived at the hall on time to find five (5) elders waiting for us. Only one of my witnesses was able to show up in person but the others knew what was going on.
Now before we walked into the hall, I took out my iPhone, opened the Voice Memo app, started recording, and switched my screen off. I walked in with my phone, keys, and wallet in one hand and my laptop and notepad in the other. Before I sat down, I placed my personal effects on the table as nonchalantly as possible, with keys on top of the pile. (I tend to do this wherever I go anyway since I hate to have wallet, keys, and phone in pockets when I sit down. I figured it wouldn't be too suspicious.)
I put the laptop on the table and asked the chairman if it would be okay if I used it to take notes since I'm faster at typing. He said that would be fine as long as there was no audio recording software running. I replied that I wouldn't have anything running but a simple notepad app, to which he nodded in approval. (This may have been deceptive but I felt I had little choice if I wanted an accurate record of the whole meeting.) At that, he called on another elder for the opening prayer and my wife and I bowed our heads out of respect for them.
As soon as the prayer ended, the one elder at the table who is tech savvy (who, I believe, also owns an iPhone) asked me to use a pen/paper instead of the laptop. He made some comment about "electronic devices" and I nodded, closed my laptop, and put it on the floor behind me. At that, the meeting began.
The chairman started out by telling us what we were being 'charged' with and explaining that apostasy isn't limited to those who protest and carry signs outside convention centers. He gave us the Society's definition – a “standing away from God” - and asked how we felt about that. We both expressed, more or less, shock that our rather private (aside from parents) doubts were being used to force us into our out of the Organization.
After that, the chairman asked if we had any witness testimony that we wanted to submit (and he was aware that we did). I called in my witness, who was able to honestly testify that I refused to discuss specific doubts with a group of friends when we went snowboarding. He also added that he’d never heard of anyone else having knowledge of our doubts and that we seemed to keep any different beliefs to ourselves. Again, his testimony will probably make little difference in our verdict but HE knows what’s happening, along with several others. My hope is that he (they) will recognize the injustice.
After that, the questioning began. We did our best to take a “we have doubts” stance instead of sharing our full spectrum of disbelief. Some questions included:
· Do you believe this is God’s spirit-directed organization?
· Do you accept the bible as God’s word?
· What will you teach your children?
· Have you celebrated any holidays or birthdays?
· How do you feel about the blood policy?
· What if an unbeliever asks what you believe about a subject in which you disagree with the Society?
At one point, my wife brought up the July 2009 AW article, Is it wrong to change from the religion of your family?… or something like that… in which a double standard is VERY clear. One of the elders said, “Yeah, but that’s talking about people who want to learn THE TRUTH.” I stopped trying to defend anything at that point. Why I strayed from "we have doubts", I don't know.
This lasted a couple of hours and then they asked us to step out while they deliberated. We stepped out and I made a crucial mistake: I left my phone unattended. About 15 minutes after the deliberation began the door opened and the chairman stalked out, shoved my iPhone into my hands and said, “I really don’t appreciate you doing that. Now it’s going to take a lot longer to reach a decision.” WOW. BUSTED! You could tell he was livid inside… and yet he contained it very well. (My wife commented about his neck and eyes bulging when he came out.) I looked at my iPhone and noticed the Voice Memo app was no longer running but they also couldn't get to my files because I had the screen lock password enabled. That meant they couldn't delete it.
Honestly, I felt really bad because I think the chairman has a kind heart and intentions. But I had no other way of ensuring an accurate record of what was said. I explained my reasons for secretly recording the hearing but he wouldn’t listen. He did soften his expression a bit but told us to go on home since there wouldn’t be an answer anytime soon.
Even though I know the WTS is wrong, I felt incredibly bad about deceiving him and (some of) the others. I feel no regret for recording it, though.
More on this later or I’ll never get any of it posted… (We still don’t have a verdict, BTW.)