Posts by jst2laws

86

An Observation About Life

by JamesThomas in

jw
friends

being consciously present in this moment of life's expression, being open and meeting with this present moment of reality, being truly with what is actually here without judgments and mental commentary, does not seem to leave much room for beliefs in deities and their shenanigans.

in fact such imaginings only seem to steal away the vibrant aliveness of here.

so, perhaps, it is when we are not that much present with the truth of life, right here, right now, and rather lost in mental interpretations that we feel a need to become involved in the drama of gods and religion.

jst2laws

JameThomas, also Evilforce and poppers,

Early in this thread, back in May of last year, I joined in this discussion and said,

Many, especially those like myself who want to keep a grip on the allusion of reality, will not take the leap until we see some room for validation from science. No science, not even Quantum Mechanics, promotes this type experience because science is not into "experiencing" in research but only OBSERVATION. Yet anyone who understands what Quantum Physics has found, contrary to what they expected to find according to the Newtonian world view, must fight the tendency to wonder about the possibility that our perception of reality is only that, A PERCEPTION. From there even skeptics as myself may feel justified in asking, "is there a reality beyond this perception". I have, since youth, had a sense of connection to something. After leaving the WT I decided it was all a fraud and my feelings were imagined. Then I got hooked on science and found more reason to question my perception of reality then to question my spiritual "experience".

I was ready then to trust "experience" at that point. In the mid summer a friend responding to my interests gave me a book on meditation: "The Eight Minute Guide to Meditaion". I cannot describe what an impact it has had on me. (example: my blood pressure was lower than it had been in 15 years, and off meds)

Yet my appreciation for the "allusion" (physical world) I refer to above has increased. I still occasionally let myself get caught up in the daily anxieties but no longer refer to them as "anxieties of life". They are the anxieties that rob us of "life".

Thanks again for starting this thread. How about a new one on MEDITATION?

Steve

43

Cathartic Finish to Painful Memories of Mark

by jst2laws in

continued from http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/107302/1.ashx .

after 10 years in the "fultime work" my wife and i left bethel and moved back to missouri to serve where the "need was great".

mark had was about 17 and had put his foot down about going to the kh but his dad still pushed.

jst2laws

Hello Auldsoul, Hope you are feeling better. I understand what you are saying about the rabid beast. I'm glad you clarified that the org is not mad and viciously attacking people because it is full of hatred. It is just SICK. I know personally I made choices in dealing with my brother that I thought was the best course for him, like tough love. I had no hatred toward him are anyone else in the things I did to him as his brother and an "elder". Just mentally sick with a twisted belief system.

Balsam,

I wonder if you remember me from years ago on BeaconRoom. Yes, I remember the grief you expressed for your son. I have a friend staying with me temporarily who also lost a son, partly due to his twisted WT childhood. The best we can do now is, as you say, reach out to others and help them.

Steve

43

Cathartic Finish to Painful Memories of Mark

by jst2laws in

continued from http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/107302/1.ashx .

after 10 years in the "fultime work" my wife and i left bethel and moved back to missouri to serve where the "need was great".

mark had was about 17 and had put his foot down about going to the kh but his dad still pushed.

jst2laws

James Free,

Welcome to the board. It's great to see new folks come on and quickly relate to the discussions.

Even those who do their best in the Org. can feel like that. 'Pioneer' pressure talks often pursuade those not able to do it that what they manage is not enough in God's eyes.

So true, and I think you are right about the fad of disorders that went around to

excuse them from the criticism that others in the congregation would make if they were unable to cope with the endless presures within the Org.

Here in the US one of the early ones was hypoglycemia, then CFS, depression, corpal tunnel syndrome as well as others. Or did the pressure of trying to be good enough actually induce symptoms of these diseases? At the same time we must acknowledge that there were many truly ill with such diseases and that guilt was placed on them by those who suggested they weren't really sick)

Hope to hear more from you.

rmayer,

Thanks for you thoughts.

Steve

43

Cathartic Finish to Painful Memories of Mark

by jst2laws in

continued from http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/107302/1.ashx .

after 10 years in the "fultime work" my wife and i left bethel and moved back to missouri to serve where the "need was great".

mark had was about 17 and had put his foot down about going to the kh but his dad still pushed.

jst2laws

Surrep and Myself,

It has been a long time. Hope all is well with you too. Hugs back to Myself

Serendipity, hugs back to you too.

Dinah,

"And isn't it great to find folks who UNDERSTAND! and don't JUDGE!??"

Yes, while I thought Mark's life story might help others I have also told the story for my own benefit. I knew people here would be understanding and the process has have been more helpful then expected.

Freedomlover,

Thankyou and yes, I agree with you.

Steve

43

Cathartic Finish to Painful Memories of Mark

by jst2laws in

continued from http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/107302/1.ashx .

after 10 years in the "fultime work" my wife and i left bethel and moved back to missouri to serve where the "need was great".

mark had was about 17 and had put his foot down about going to the kh but his dad still pushed.

jst2laws

Williloman,

Three days later she stopped taking her drugs. In the past, when she went without Paxil for just a few days, the downward swing in her mood and attitude was pronounced. However, her spirits were soaring and she just didn't need it anymore. That's been more than two years. She's never taken another Paxil. She's had the usual disappointments and ups and downs that life brings with it, but she's a whole new person, bubbly, outgoing, happy.

I love to hear this. I hope many lurking JW's with simular difficulties will get a clue from your daughter's experience.

Jeff and Narkissos,

Andie,

God provides exactly what we need, when we need it, whether we recognize it or not

I believe that too. We sometimes go through periods where we ignore it but it keeps happening.

Steve

43

Cathartic Finish to Painful Memories of Mark

by jst2laws in

continued from http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/107302/1.ashx .

after 10 years in the "fultime work" my wife and i left bethel and moved back to missouri to serve where the "need was great".

mark had was about 17 and had put his foot down about going to the kh but his dad still pushed.

jst2laws

Andi,

I don't know why you need this but I'm glad it helps. I like your new pic too.

deeskis,

it helps release our feelings

That is what has been happening. I started this early this morning after waking up thinking about it. I guess it was time to deal with it.

Jeff,

My God, I cannot hardly write this. I have never admitted my intense fear of this as the reason for his death publicly. I have not ever uttered it to a soul till this moment. Your account just brought it to the surface.
May God bless you. Again thanx for sharing, and my apologies for having burdened the thread with my own story.

It is painful isn't it. But I'm sure it is good for us. I feel drained right now, and still head achie. Hope you are OK.

Steve

43

Cathartic Finish to Painful Memories of Mark

by jst2laws in

continued from http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/107302/1.ashx .

after 10 years in the "fultime work" my wife and i left bethel and moved back to missouri to serve where the "need was great".

mark had was about 17 and had put his foot down about going to the kh but his dad still pushed.

jst2laws

SimpleSally,

Even at 30 years old, his parents were still trying to make him tow the line and SO WAS I.
if his own wife didn't tell the elders on him and supported him instead to live a good life

Well, we with regrets do wonder. However, your thoughts help me see, as Chris, Dave and others are saying, that we shouldn't take on more responsibility than is due. People around us respond to circumstances and make decisions that only they can be accountable for. Your involvement in your husband's problems as my involvement in my brother's, is secondary. And our decisions were based on the poor mindset cultivated in us by the mindless institution. We were duped. We are out now. I hope your life is good, Sally.

Bryan,

I'm sorry about your daughter. Maybe she will come around some day.

Robdar,

Steve, my heart breaks for you. I hope you will be able to achieve some closure by sharing Mark's story.

I'm having a lot of unexpected emotions now that I have faced this issue, but I'm sure it is for the better.

Dinah,

You shouldn't heap too much blame on yourself.

I'm trying to be balanced. But I'm looking at this more realistically than I had as a JW. I'll get into proper perspective eventually. Thanks for your thoughts.

Steve

43

Cathartic Finish to Painful Memories of Mark

by jst2laws in

continued from http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/107302/1.ashx .

after 10 years in the "fultime work" my wife and i left bethel and moved back to missouri to serve where the "need was great".

mark had was about 17 and had put his foot down about going to the kh but his dad still pushed.

jst2laws

Ok Chris,

"had Mark been giving out signals he was thinking of killing himself?; By that I mean had he spoken of wanting to die, or even told you of a plan he had?"

Yes and no. I don't think he had a "plan". I think he had hope near the end because things were going his way. But the night he weakened and drank again I suspect he was only lucid enough to feel like sh*t and wanted to die because he had FAILED again.

As for the YES portion, before he left to go back home we had an intense moment. I tried to draw him out often and one afternoon we sat in the back of my pickup truck at the edge of the woods, talking. I was in judgemental mode and was telling him what a bad person he was. He cried and spoke about how he missed the early days when I was home and his childhood playing on the street next to our house, riding his pedal car. Since growing up life had become complicated and painful. He balled as he talked about how much he missed those innocent times.

Knowing what I do now, I think he was contemplating giving up at that time. I'm not feeling bad about his decisions, I'm feeling bad about my decisions and the way I treated him. I was a damn, self righteous WT jerk.

SimpleSally,

I'm working on a response to you but I have to take a short break. I can hardly see the key board and I have a terrific head ache. I'll be back.

Steve

43

Cathartic Finish to Painful Memories of Mark

by jst2laws in

continued from http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/107302/1.ashx .

after 10 years in the "fultime work" my wife and i left bethel and moved back to missouri to serve where the "need was great".

mark had was about 17 and had put his foot down about going to the kh but his dad still pushed.

jst2laws

Dave and Linda and Codeblue,

Thank you for those thoughts. It didn't bother me too much until I got away from the Watchtower world view and realized what we had done to my brother. My family being inside yet, has no idea that this probably could have been avoided. And Dave, I know I could not have helped with the mindset I had at the time. I guess that is why I'm forgiving of those inside who still have that mindset.

Brigid,

this one is just sitting on my heart for some reason, making me ball like a baby

I'm sorry it is touching you so deeply. I have had a lot of difficulty dealing with it today too. But there is no gain in thinking about it unless we learn something, as you stated. I hope you gain something from Mark's experience that will give value to your sadness.

Chris,

I have to wait a minute to answer your question. Contemplating it brings to mind some events and words that I hadn't thought about until now. This is not easy to face.

Steve

43

Cathartic Finish to Painful Memories of Mark

by jst2laws in

continued from http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/107302/1.ashx .

after 10 years in the "fultime work" my wife and i left bethel and moved back to missouri to serve where the "need was great".

mark had was about 17 and had put his foot down about going to the kh but his dad still pushed.

jst2laws

Greendawn,

I agree, the sooner the better.

Odrade,

Thanks, the other threads were about Jane. Yes she killed herself too and again I missed a chance to help. I had dealt with a lot of child molestation in the WT but didn't realize how extensive it was until I listed them. Now I'm wonder about the extent of suicide that goes on in the WT, as I'm making a mental list that is scary. The past thread about Jane is at

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/64881/1.ashx

Steve