Posts by hoj

7

Gideon's Army

by hoj in

in judges 7 gideon had an army at the well of harod.

god told him that there were too many with him to deliver the midianites into their hands.

gideons men might think their victory was through their own power.

In Judges 7 Gideon had an army at the well of Harod. God told him that there were too many with him to deliver the Midianites into their hands. Gideon’s men might think their victory was through their own power. So God said that everyone who was afraid were to go home. Twenty two thousand left with ten thousand remaining. God said that there were still too many men.

God told Gideon to sort the men according to how they drank the water. If they bowed to the water to drink they were set in one group, and if they lapped the water out of their own hand like a dog they would be put in another group. Three hundred men lapped the water out of their hand while the rest of the ten thousand bowed to the water to drink. God said that by the three hundred he would save them, delivering the Midianites into their hand.

The size of the army was greatly reduced with this method of sorting. Did God just wait and see which group would be smaller and then choose that group? He didn’t say which group would be chosen until after they were done drinking. Popular view is that the men who drank the water from their hand, bringing their hand to their mouth, would be more battle-ready. They would be able to see the enemy coming while they were drinking. I think there is a contradiction in reasoning there. God doesn’t want them to feel that their victory was out of their own ability, but chooses those who are more self-capable? No, I think there was another reason.

Why were there to be two groups: one that bowed down to drink, and one that lapped the water like a dog out of their hand (bringing their hand to their mouth)? Wouldn’t there be some who lapped while bowing down? Wouldn’t there be some who would drink from their hand without lapping? Which group would they be put into?

G4352

προσκυνε´ω

proskuneo

pros-koo-neh'-o

From G4314 and probably a derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouchto, that is, (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (doreverence to, adore): - worship.

This is a Greek word that is used for a good type of worship in the New Testament. The meaning of the word carries the idea of the way a dog kisses his master’s hand by licking. The dog seems to be in a state of worship to his master. I think this concept is used for choosing the men.

In Revelation 17 it says that the waters represent the peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. Since both people and tongues are in the definition it seems that water represents people with a message. What makes sense to me is that those who lap the water out of their own hand are taking the message given to them by their teachers into their own hand, and testing it against Scriptures as a form of worship. They are chosen for the army. The majority bowed to the water to drink. I think that means that they bowed to the message as taught to them by their teachers.

Notice that God said that He couldn’t deliver the Midianites into their hand when they were many. Perhaps God was saying that the task couldn’t be done by those who drank by bowing to the message of their teachers. They would be fighting by man’s power. But this army was to do a job that only those who would lap the water out of their own hand could do. Those men would be taught by God rather than by men.

God sent Gideon with his servant to hear what the Midianites had to say. They heard one tell another of a dream where a cake of barley bread tumbled down into the host of Midianites and knocked a tent over. The other interpreted the dream, saying that the barley cake was nothing else than the sword of Gideon. Gideon was glad to hear the dream and interpretation because it reassured him that the Lord was delivering them into his hand.

Gideon then gave each of his men an empty pitcher with a lamp in it, and a trumpet. They surrounded the Midianites and all at the same time broke their pitchers and blew their trumpets. Apparently out of confusion the Midianites turned on each other with their swords and then took off running from Gideon.

The pitcher would have been made by a potter. We are to be clay in the hands of the Potter, willing to be made into anything He wants to make of us. The pitcher is the finished work. As we lap the water out of our own hand, we become formed into the vessel made by the Potter. That vessel is empty of men’s doctrines and has spiritual light within it (the lamp). When Gideon and his army broke their pitchers so their light shined, and blew their trumpets, the enemy turned on each other.

Blowing the trumpets would be proclaiming what had been learned and understood through lapping the water out of their own hand. When the enemy hears those things, they will turn to the Word to determine whether it might be so (or to try to disprove it). They would likely argue among themselves whether it is so, thereby doing Gideon’s job for him, using the sword of the Lord (His Word) on each other.

It seems that Gideon didn’t even use swords. It’s like his army took peace from the Midianites so that they killed each other just by blowing their trumpets and letting their light shine. That sounds like the red horse rider of Rev. 6:4 who was given power to take peace from the earth so they would kill one another. It doesn’t say the rider killed anyone with his sword either.

Those who weren’t slain took off running. Men of Israel gathered out of Naphtali, Asher, and Manasseh to pursue after the Midianites. Gideon now sends messengers throughout Mount Ephraim calling them to come down against the Midianites. It is no longer Gideon with his three hundred men against the Midianites. Those who before wouldn’t lap the water out of their own hand will either learn to do so, or they will learn from those who drink that way; and will become part of Gideon’s army.

When they broke their pitchers and blew trumpets they cried, “the sword of the Lord, and of Gideon.” If Gideon’s sword was a literal sword and the battle was a physical battle, then the Lord’s sword would be the same thing. The phrase “sword of the Lord” is found six times in the King James Version. Two of those occurrences are in Judges 7 where it is also called the sword of Gideon. The others are at 1 Chronicles 21:12, Isaiah 34:6, Jeremiah 12:12, and Jeremiah 47:6. I’ll leave those for personal study, but I feel that the sword of the Lord in those verses is the Word of God.

16

Head of gold

by hoj in

one night i woke up and couldnt get back to sleep.

then the next verse has ...thou art this head of gold.

(36) this is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

hoj

Wannabefree said,

"There never seems to be a shortage of followers waiting for another cult leader ... just stay away from my kids."

I think I'm harmless. I just worry that my followers will turn it into a cult

Here is a link to the image in case it doesn't work again.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3429424/Neb%20image.jpg

16

Head of gold

by hoj in

one night i woke up and couldnt get back to sleep.

then the next verse has ...thou art this head of gold.

(36) this is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

hoj

I'll try again... the image Nebuchadnezzar saw in his dream.

16

Head of gold

by hoj in

one night i woke up and couldnt get back to sleep.

then the next verse has ...thou art this head of gold.

(36) this is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

hoj

I posted an image but it didn't show up. Perhaps the wrong file type?

16

Head of gold

by hoj in

one night i woke up and couldnt get back to sleep.

then the next verse has ...thou art this head of gold.

(36) this is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

hoj

Here is what Nebuchadnezzar saw in his dream.

16

Head of gold

by hoj in

one night i woke up and couldnt get back to sleep.

then the next verse has ...thou art this head of gold.

(36) this is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

hoj

"If your really looking to figure it out, here's a hint - you won't get the answer just looking at those scriptures in Daniel. You must find the clues throughout the entire bible, hidden yet the same prophecy, each containing more parts of the clue."

Yes, it is because of what I see throughout the Bible that I saw my interpretation of the dream. My view of Babylon and what the "last days" is all about comes from the whole Bible. The details of the image are figurative according to definitions supplied throughout the Bible. For example, we are clay in the hands of the potter. The dream had potters clay in it. The meaning of "seed of men" can be deduced by letting the Bible interpret it. The word translated as “breast” is plural. Some translations have “breast” and some “chest.” But I don’t see any reason that the image must be male. If the image were female, that would explain that the breasts would be plural. It seems that theologians think Nebuchadnezzar was seeing an image of himself over time. But Daniel’s interpretation is that the image represents his kingdom over time. His kingdom was Babylon. Babylon would be represented as female. In Revelation she is the great whore.

The materials that the image was made of are figurative in Scripture. Gold is the most pure, and silver also has high purity and value. The brass and iron are of interest.

Deu 28:23 And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron.

What kind of heaven is this that would be brass, or the earth that it would be iron? In the first chapter of Genesis it says that lights were put in the firmament of heaven. Those lights were stars and the sun. At Revelation 1:20 it defines the stars as being angels, which could also be translated as messengers. I feel that messengers would be a better translation. Messengers of God should be a source of spiritual light, and therefore are signified by stars. It seems that the brass, or heaven, represents the place the religious leaders rule. The earth, or iron, would represent the people who are being ruled. In Nebuchadnezzar’s dream the brass ruled the world.

Lev 26:19 And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:

This verse has it switched around. It seems that those who were ruled over become the rulers. In the Protestant churches anyone can put himself in the heavens as a star.

In the dream the metals represent successive kingdoms over time. When it is the iron’s turn to have the kingdom it is like the heaven being made iron as in the above verse. Those who were being ruled became rulers in the Protestant Church. My interpretation is according to all of this.

16

Head of gold

by hoj in

one night i woke up and couldnt get back to sleep.

then the next verse has ...thou art this head of gold.

(36) this is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

hoj

One night I woke up and couldn’t get back to sleep. About 4:00 I got up and turned my computer on to study with my electronic Bible program. The verse that was selected was Dan. 2:34 about the stone hewn without hands. The verse got my attention, and I didn’t have anything in particular that I intended on studying anyway.

I started reading the chapter from the beginning. Verse 37 jumped out at me. In the interpretation Daniel said to Nebuchadnezzar, “thou, O king, art a king of kings…” That was a title fitting for Christ. Then the next verse has “…thou art this head of gold.” Previously in telling the dream Daniel said that the head was fine gold. Fine gold would be fitting to represent Christ.

The image clearly represented successive kingdoms over time. I knew that if Christ was the head of gold, then it would describe the Church age because He is the head of the Church. I was surprised when I started to test the idea. Here is the dream and Daniel’s interpretation with my comments inserted:

Dan 2:31-45 KJV Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. (32) This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, (33) His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. (34) Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. (35) Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. (36) This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

Daniel told the dream, and here is his interpretation with my comments inserted:

(37) Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. (38) And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

It seems that Daniel is putting Nebuchadnezzar in the place of Christ.

(39) And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee,

The early Church would be after Christ, inferior to Him; yet represented by a precious metal, silver.

and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

For over a thousand years the Catholic church ruled the world; controlling doctrine, traditions, and even Scriptures. They came after the early church.

(40) And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

The reformers broke the Catholic church in pieces; and then the reformed churches broke in pieces giving us multitudes of Protestant churches.

(41) And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. (42) And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. (43) And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

We are to be clay in the hands of the Potter. The clay mingles with the seed of men, which would be their doctrines, but won’t cleave to them. The kingdom is divided and weak. Everything up to this has been fulfilled already.

(44) And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. (45) Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

The stone hewn out of the mountain of God without hands causes the image of Babylon to fall. The stone isn’t the work of men’s hands. It is the work of God. As much as the apostles established the kingdom of silver, and the church fathers joined with Constantine to start the Catholic church, and the reformers protested and broke it in pieces; I believe this stone carved out by God will be certain people chosen and taught by God who will smite the image until it falls and it all becomes one kingdom. Jesus’ prayer for unity in John 17 will have been answered.

The Church started out with Christ as the head. We can see from history that there have been many power struggles within the Church and that men have taken headship. There are distinct ages of the Church which are represented well in the image from the dream. You could say that the king of Babylon is now the head of what we would call the Church, and I feel that is why Nebuchadnezzar was said to be the head.

45

Do other religions change doctrine?

by serenitynow! in

after visiting with a couple of jws over the weekend; and for the first time talking about my true feelings about the org with active jws other than immediate fam, one of them mentioned something interesting.

when i talked about how with the constant changes to beliefs that i find it impossible to believe that the gb can be guided by the hs.

so one of the jws said, "other religions change doctrines around too.

hoj

"Sounds a bit like Unitarianism to me..."

Agonus, I looked into Unitarianism and at first I thought it sounded good. But it looks to me that they see everybody's truth to be truth for them. I don't feel that way at all. I feel there is one Truth, let's find it. Let's seek until we agree in Truth. From what I read it seems Unitarians are content agreeing to disagree.

If creeds and doctrines are without error they could keep the people in truth. But what happens is that because of the error in the creeds and doctrines they keep the people in error.

6

The cursed fig tree

by hoj in

when jesus was hungry he looked to see if there were figs on the fig tree.

there weren't any figs, only leaves.

he cursed the tree so that there wouldn't be figs on it again.

hoj

Tammy, that makes sense. It agrees with the idea that the time for fruit was in the past and not future as according to the supplied "yet." But consider that the cursing of the fig tree is toward the end of his ministry. I feel that his life and ministry are prophetic of the days leading up to the Day of the Lord. In Matthew the fig tree is in chapter 21 and chapter 22 has the marriage parable which clearly is concerning his marriage with the Church. Wouldn't you agree that his marriage is future? I don't think that the fig tree is out of context and timeline with the marriage in the next chapter.

45

Do other religions change doctrine?

by serenitynow! in

after visiting with a couple of jws over the weekend; and for the first time talking about my true feelings about the org with active jws other than immediate fam, one of them mentioned something interesting.

when i talked about how with the constant changes to beliefs that i find it impossible to believe that the gb can be guided by the hs.

so one of the jws said, "other religions change doctrines around too.

hoj

I would rather that the churches would change their doctrines. After much personal study my views changed, but my church didn't want to hear it. I didn't set out to change my views, and they didn't change because someone else converted me. So then what was I to do? I couldn't believe what I was taught. I couldn't find a church that believed what I believed. The churches wanted me in their church as long as I didn't feel a need to share my views. So I haven't been able to assemble with others without feeling raped (figuratively speaking).

I would like to find a church that rather than having a set of doctrines has as its purpose to seek out truth, whatever it is; whether or not it is what has been believed, realizing that there is clearly error in the churches since they don't agree with each other. Is there such a church?