Posts by hoj

29

Book sealed to the learned but not to the unlearned.

by hoj in

isa 29:11-12 and the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, read this, i pray thee: and he saith, i cannot; for it is sealed: and the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, read this, i pray thee: and he saith, i am not learned.. another way of saying this is that the book is sealed to the one who has been taught, but not to the one who hasnt been taught.

the one who hasnt been taught just needs to be taught.. the things that we have been taught can keep us from understanding the bible.

any error in doctrines can keep us in error.

hoj

Isa 29:11-12 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

Another way of saying this is that the book is sealed to the one who has been taught, but not to the one who hasn’t been taught. The one who hasn’t been taught just needs to be taught.

The things that we have been taught can keep us from understanding the Bible. Any error in doctrines can keep us in error. Jesus’ prayer for unity (John 17) can’t be answered as long as we are controlled by the doctrines of our teachers.

The Paradox

Isaiah presented this as a paradox. The one who has been taught says he can’t read (understand) the book because it is sealed. The one who hasn’t been taught says that he can’t read (understand) it because he hasn’t been taught.

If the one who hasn’t been taught becomes taught, then the book may be sealed to him too. Even though Isaiah presented the paradox, there must be a way to solve the problem because he ended up saying:

Isa 29:24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.

The one who was taught but erred will come to understand. The one who wasn’t taught because he rebelled will learn doctrine.

13

Utterly destroy

by hoj in

many times god orders his people to utterly destroy the enemy.

this one is from judges, the same book that had gideon's army which i see as allegory.

could this be figurative also?.

hoj

Here is another one:

Exo 32:26-28 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD'S side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him. (27) And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side,and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour. (28) And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

There is a big difference whether the camp was cleansed by eliminating evil by physical death of the wicked; or whether the cleansing is by the Word of God. Is the wrath (passion) of God to eliminate and punish evil through literal destruction? Or is His passion to correct through His Word?

Moses wrote books of history and law, right? But in Deuteronomy 18:18 God refers to Moses as a prophet. Peter in his speech at Acts 3 quotes that verse, showing that he saw Moses as a prophet. Stephen in his speech at Acts 7 also quotes it. Could these stories in the books of Moses be prophetic rather than history?

13

Utterly destroy

by hoj in

many times god orders his people to utterly destroy the enemy.

this one is from judges, the same book that had gideon's army which i see as allegory.

could this be figurative also?.

hoj

Here is another passage that has utter destruction.

Eze 9:4-6 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. (5) And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: (6) Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

Are they being slain with literal swords, or are they being slain by the Word of God? In Judges it was the virgins who weren't slain. Here it is the ones who have the mark by the one with the inkhorn. They are the ones who mourned over the abominations done in the city. This relates to the virgins of Revelation 7 (the 144,000) who were sealed from the slaughter.

In Judges and Revelation it was the virgins who were not to be slain. In Ezekiel it is the ones who mourn over the abominations. The abominations refers to the adulteries against God, which is taking words of men over the Word of God.

22

Anyone been out for a long time, then for whatever reason went to a meeting or convention? What was it like to you now?

by Think About It in

jw
friends

i've been out 15 yrs and never attended again.

anyone been out a long time and for whatever reason went to a meeting or convention?

what was it like to you then?

hoj

I think it is the same thing for someone who left any church and then to go back. Not someone who left because he didn't get around to going, but one who left for reason. For the first few years of being away I felt that I shouldn't be there because they were wrong about some things. Being away was like being in the wilderness where I could study without being guided by those I considered in error. At some point after the few years I started feeling like I should go back because they needed what I understood. Sitting there and listening I had the feeling of being raped. I'm thinking NO! NO! NO!. But the message keeps going.

When I went back I knew that I couldn't just start blabbing the things I wanted to share. But after a few months I felt I earned the right to start sharing things with the pastor. He wasn't at all interested in being taught anything. The same thing happened in various churches that I tried going into. Now I wonder why I wanted to go back into prison. But if I can't and shouldn't go back, I need to feel like "let her burn."

13

Utterly destroy

by hoj in

many times god orders his people to utterly destroy the enemy.

this one is from judges, the same book that had gideon's army which i see as allegory.

could this be figurative also?.

hoj

And there came to be a great flood

I don't believe the flood was literal. In Revelation it says that the waters which Babylon sits on are peoples, multitudes, tongues. The tongues would be spiritual languages. Each of the denominations has their own language. The whole world has been flooded now. The people are eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage. Eating and drinking means partaking of a message. Marrying and giving in marriage is when a preacher takes a church as his congregation. There is a lot in the allegory of the flood. And don't forget the allegory of the plagues where God also destroys.

13

Utterly destroy

by hoj in

many times god orders his people to utterly destroy the enemy.

this one is from judges, the same book that had gideon's army which i see as allegory.

could this be figurative also?.

hoj

Watch this for another viewpoint on genocide

That was pretty good. I'll have to bookmark that one. It shows how ridiculous it is to take the Bible literally.

13

Utterly destroy

by hoj in

many times god orders his people to utterly destroy the enemy.

this one is from judges, the same book that had gideon's army which i see as allegory.

could this be figurative also?.

hoj

The Bible is a book written by men to use God for their own purposes. Do we have proof that this specific account actually took place?

I don't believe that it actually took place. I believe it is prophetic instruction on how to enter the rest and inheritance. The Bible is a sealed book that the wise will understand in the time of the end (whatever that means).

13

Utterly destroy

by hoj in

many times god orders his people to utterly destroy the enemy.

this one is from judges, the same book that had gideon's army which i see as allegory.

could this be figurative also?.

hoj

Check out www.evilbible.com

The God of the Bible seems evil if you take it literally. You get what you worship. The religions when they take the battles literally have reason to see their "holy wars" as service to their god. The wars continue in God's name. If God's command is to those who understand to utterly destroy the religions of error, then the idea of the evil god goes away. The literal holy wars will end and we can fight the spiritual holy wars against error.

Which way will it be... a literal Armageddon because of taking the Bible literally, or a figurative Armageddon where all the denominations come together to battle until all of what they teach comes to an end? If it is the latter, I believe the physical wars, at least those justified by religion (which is most of them) will come to an end.

13

Utterly destroy

by hoj in

many times god orders his people to utterly destroy the enemy.

this one is from judges, the same book that had gideon's army which i see as allegory.

could this be figurative also?.

hoj

But notice it wasn't God that wanted this done. It was the assembly of Israelites.
Look at verse 25
"In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes."
Sometimes men try to put blame on God for the things men do. This whole account really
shows 'sickening' and 'despicable' things some men can do to other people.

Cattails, that verse fits well with my interpretation. Consider the first verse of the Bible that mentions being right in your own eyes:

Deuteronomy 12:7-9 7 And there ye shall eat before the LORD your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto, ye and your households, wherein the LORD thy God hath blessed thee. 8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes. 9 For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you

Verse 9 says that the reason that they shouldn't do what is right in their own eyes is that they hadn't yet come to rest in the inheritance that God would give them. In Judges God had just given the inheritance so it would be good to do what is right in their own eyes. The way this makes sense to me is until you are ready to enter the rest and inheritance, you might as well have a king to tell you what to believe. But when you enter the rest, it is better to take the water into your own hands and believe what is right in your own eyes.

Back to "utterly destroy"... In the day of the Lord when the Bible becomes understood, those who understand are to utterly destroy men, women, children, cattle with the edge of the Sword (the Word of God), but save the virgins (they are not indoctrinated). People aren't being destroyed, it is their doctrines and high places. They should become part of the inheritance. The land (churches) will become the inheritance when they are transformed through the Word.

13

Utterly destroy

by hoj in

many times god orders his people to utterly destroy the enemy.

this one is from judges, the same book that had gideon's army which i see as allegory.

could this be figurative also?.

hoj

Many times God orders His people to utterly destroy the enemy. This one is from Judges, the same book that had Gideon's army which I see as allegory. Could this be figurative also?

Jdg 21:10-12 And the congregation sent thither twelve thousand men of the valiantest, and commanded them, saying, Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the children. (11) And this is the thing that ye shall do, Ye shall utterly destroy every male, and every woman that hath lain by man. (12) And they found among the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead four hundred young virgins, that had known no man by lying with any male: and they brought them unto the camp to Shiloh, which is in the land of Canaan.

The command was that men, women, and children would be slain with the sword. They did so, except they brought back four hundred young virgins. Didn’t they fall in the category of men, women, and children?

First, verse 10 included women and children without directly mentioning the men, but they would be included in the “inhabitants”. Verse 11 explains how to do it. It includes the males and doesn’t mention the children. It also would indicate that virgins were not to be slain. They brought back four hundred of them. How did they know which ones were virgins? Would they ask them, saying that if they weren’t virgins they would need to be slain with the sword?

In the parable of the sower, the sower sows the seed. The seed represents the Word in that parable. The male sows his seed, the woman receiving it. There is conception and then birth. So the male in the story could represent the teachers, the ones sowing their doctrines. The women who have lain with them are those who receive those doctrines. The children would be spiritual babes and would also be receiving the doctrines, so they didn’t need to be mentioned in verse 11. But the virgins weren’t receiving men’s doctrines.

When the men went through the city with their swords (the Word of God) they would slay the males who were teaching their doctrines and the women and children who were accepting them. The virgins, since they were innocent, wouldn’t need to be slain. They are like the 144,000 of Revelation 7 who were virgins and were sealed from being slain. They could tell which ones were virgins because they wouldn’t have the men’s doctrines, neither as teachers nor as learners.