Posts by debator

42

Some Question(s) for Debator...

by AGuest in

greetings... and may you have peace!.

1. the witnesses are now out in full force doing "street work"... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:5?.

2. the "elders" etc., pray publicly, from the podium... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:6?.

debator

Hi Isaac

epi is translated "over" lots of times.

Ac 7:18 - [In Context|Read Chapter|Original Greek]

until THERE AROSE ANOTHER KING OVER EGYPT WHO KNEW NOTHING ABOUT JOSEPH.

rev 9:11 - [In Context|Read Chapter|Original Greek]

They have as king over them, the angel of the abyss; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek he has the name Apollyon.

Re 17:18 - [In Context|Read Chapter|Original Greek]

"The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth ."

especially when the reigning over something is involved

42

Some Question(s) for Debator...

by AGuest in

greetings... and may you have peace!.

1. the witnesses are now out in full force doing "street work"... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:5?.

2. the "elders" etc., pray publicly, from the podium... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:6?.

debator

Hi Psacramento

None of those are facts!

Jesus himself prayed in public so he was clearly clarifying that the motivation was the issue.

Throughout the centuries Judas presence at the last supper has been debated.

John 6 is not refering to the last supper but Jesus is talking about his death and sacrifice for us. Only people that ignore the context of Jesus's words and explanation believe this silliness. When talking at the last supper itself Jesus calls it a rememberance only. You are trying to link two separate accounts that are refering to the same event but not each other.

Jesus talked about "other sheep" as well.

John 10:16
I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

So christians rule over Jews on earth? So according to you Jews get earth and Christians get heaven?

Angel simply means "messenger" in hebrew the same word covers both. If Jesus is a messenger he is an angel. God's spirit sons are only called Angels as a job title they are more correctly spirit beings Jesus became more thean them by being the only one to "become flesh"

God's nature is spirit, Jesus's nature is spirit, Angels nature is spirit.

John 4:23-24
23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

As Jesus himself says.

John 17:1-3 (New International Version)

1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, .....that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. Your so-called facts are only facts for those that ignore what the Bible actually says and listen to the doctrines of men.

42

Some Question(s) for Debator...

by AGuest in

greetings... and may you have peace!.

1. the witnesses are now out in full force doing "street work"... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:5?.

2. the "elders" etc., pray publicly, from the podium... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:6?.

debator

Hi Isaac

amplified is not the only one.

The following translations also translate "epi" here as over:

The New Testament in the Language of the People--C.B.Williams
The New Testament in Modern Speech--Weymouth
The Holy Scriptures, A New Translation from the Original Languages--Darby
The Complete Bible in Modern English--Fenton
The Holy Bible,A Translation From the Latin Vulgate in the Light of the Hebrew and Greek Originals--Knox
The Modern Language Bible-New Berkeley Version
The Bible, An American Translation--Goodspeed.
The Amplified Bible
The Unvarnished New Testament--Gaus.
Holy Bible, An American Translation-- W.F.Beck.
Compare also Marshall's Interlinear which says under the word 'epi' at Rev.5:10 - "on(?over)"
See also these well known Greek-English Lexicons:
A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature by Arndt and Gingrich(p.286)-- b.fig.-a.over of power,authority,control of or over someone or someth.......Rv 5:10. and
The New Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament(p.231)--A.with the GENITIVE.... d.fig.used of things,affairs persons,which one is set over,over which he exercises power.....Rev.[5].10.
in every case "epi" means "over", eg., Luke 1:33; Acts7:18.
luke 1: 33 and he will rule as king over the house of Jacob forever, and there will be no end of his kingdom.”
Clearly then, those translations that translate EPI as "over" at Revelation 5.10 are the more accurate in conveying the meaning of the original.

42

Some Question(s) for Debator...

by AGuest in

greetings... and may you have peace!.

1. the witnesses are now out in full force doing "street work"... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:5?.

2. the "elders" etc., pray publicly, from the podium... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:6?.

debator

Hi Isaac

So Jesus doesn't mean heaven when he says heaven? Again your answer leaves begs the question where is john the baptist if he isn't someone in it?

He is talking about people IN the kingdom of heaven of which John isn't one.

And when has this kingdom of heaven been available from?

Matthew 11:12 (New International Version)

12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it

So before then it wasn't available.

In part I do agree that this kingdom of heaven willl be over the earth and encompass us.

Matthew 6:10 (New International Version)

10 your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.

Revelation 5:10 (Amplified Bible)

10 And You have made them a kingdom (royal race) and priests to our God, and they SHALL reign [as kings] over the earth! (A)

We on earth will be ruled over by these priests and kings in heaven.

Psalm 103:19
Jehovah has established his throne in heaven, and his kingdom rules over all.

But we (creation) on earth are waiting for this to happen.

Romans 8:19-23 (New International Version)

19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that [a] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

of whom Jesus was literally the first.

John 3:13 Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.

42

Some Question(s) for Debator...

by AGuest in

greetings... and may you have peace!.

1. the witnesses are now out in full force doing "street work"... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:5?.

2. the "elders" etc., pray publicly, from the podium... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:6?.

debator

Hi mosha

I wasn't specifying Jews today, who are a people cut off, a sliced off bough replaced by Early Christians. I'm talking about Jews using Bible chronology to be in expectation of the messiah when Jesus was on earth.

42

Some Question(s) for Debator...

by AGuest in

greetings... and may you have peace!.

1. the witnesses are now out in full force doing "street work"... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:5?.

2. the "elders" etc., pray publicly, from the podium... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:6?.

debator

Hi Aguest

W will have to agree to disagree with prayer While you continue to keep saying giving thanks is not part of pray to God. Not recognising Jesus was talking about prayer as a people and pray personally for ourselves. You are sifting out gnats in this while missing the principle of pray, beseeching and giving thanks to Jehovah our Father being part of it.

Does the bible lie? Becasue Jews ALL recognise only a earthly reward and earthly resurrection in god's kingdom so unless they used a different Bible they would not have known before Jesus about the new covenant. All your scriptures in hebrews talk about rewards and "belonging to heaven" not IN heaven.

The city refered to is God's kingdom and what does Jesus say about God's kingdom?

Matthew 6:10 (New International Version)

10 your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.

The kingdom encompasses earth as well as heaven

Revelation 5:10
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth."

Revelation confirms this.

Of course then you try and call Jesus a liar when he talked of John the baptist rather than address it properly.

"I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."

Does john the baptist goto heaven according to Jesus he doesn't so where does he go?

Jesus is called in malachi "the ANGEL of the covenant" using the hebrew word for Angel so the Bible already calls Jesus an angel.

42

Some Question(s) for Debator...

by AGuest in

greetings... and may you have peace!.

1. the witnesses are now out in full force doing "street work"... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:5?.

2. the "elders" etc., pray publicly, from the podium... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:6?.

debator

Hi Aguest

You yourself from your own opinion qualify what is prayer, beseeching etc despite the Bibles use of the word pray or thanks to God. Ironically also by your opinion witnesses have made no sin our places would be consider private places of worship for us specifically, only the interested being there so we are not Publically making a display of our pray and in fact if you had been to a kingdom hall all prayers are specific to that day and besseching of Jehovah our father. And you have to qualify Jesus's (as eldererelle pointed out accurately) praying for a crowd as blessing to stop your words being a condemnation of Jesus. Despite the meaning of the words "giving thanks" being prayer.

Other Christian faiths do make a point of ritualised prayer which is on show with special clothes and chants but that is not witnesses.

The basic meaning of the word pray is to communicate with God there for any words directed to him are pray.

Jesus specifically "gave thanks" for the loaves to his father this is recognisably a pray of thanksgiving. Something the Jews and Christians knew to be an apsect or prayer that they did.

Philippians 4:6
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

Colossians 1:3
We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,

You simply redefine what you consider to be pray to your own opinion ignoring the context of it in bible usage.

Elderelle was spot on when she sees that Jesus in the verse you use is condemning doing pray for the sake of displaying yourself in front of men.

2/ When we are talking about john 6 and the lords evening meal we are talking about Jesus refering in both cases to his death and shedding blood for us the whole of mankind. you are trying to make them references to each other rather than his death and sacrifice.

It is Jesus's death and shed blood that saves us not our partaking of the remembrance meal.

Jesus himself says "Do this in remembrance of me" not "do this or else you will die!" but people tie it falsely with John 6 which is about our not being able to live unless we are partake of his actual death and sacrifice for us.

what we have is event A/ Jesus prediction in john 6 and event /B "lords evening meal" and both these are refering to Event /C Jesus actual death and sacrifice, not to each other.

3/ As for the old covenant! for the apostles and anointed the old covenant has been ended with but for those that are part of it still it remains Jesus shows this by his words for john the baptist who didn't live to be part of the new covenant and heavenly promise.

Matthew 11:11
I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

4/ I haven't got time to go into a whole michael debate but I think you know it as well as I do.

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Some Question(s) for Debator...

by AGuest in

greetings... and may you have peace!.

1. the witnesses are now out in full force doing "street work"... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:5?.

2. the "elders" etc., pray publicly, from the podium... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:6?.

debator

Hi Dgp

Forgive my delayed reply I missed your question. Bible chonology was a specific part of prophecy that we and jews use. Certain events are predicted with reference to lengths of time "70 weeks, Times, time and half, 70 years, a day for a year" etc The Jews used Bible chronology to know when the messiah would happen hense why they were in expectation in Jesus's day. Bible chronology is an option that we can use when we have references to various lengths of time in Daniel and Revelation amogst other books around certaind events like the desolation of Jerusalem. As witnesses we do use Bible chronology but as with all prophecy it is very subjective depending on accuracy of evaluation so can be subject to error but that does not mean we have to avoid using it.

It is simply one of the bible tools available to us to be "ready" for Jesus's return etc.

42

Some Question(s) for Debator...

by AGuest in

greetings... and may you have peace!.

1. the witnesses are now out in full force doing "street work"... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:5?.

2. the "elders" etc., pray publicly, from the podium... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:6?.

debator

Hi aguest

I get a headache from your proof texting.

1/ This scripture is about prayer not preaching work which both Jesus and his apostles did publically.

2/To disprove your reasoning this scripture I only have to show one instance of public prayer among a group of Christians. But are a few instead.

here the apostles praying for help as a groups.

Acts 1:14
They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.

Acts 1:24
Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen

here Paul praying with fellow Christians

Acts 20:36
When he had said this, he knelt down with all of them and prayed.

Jesus was talking about the Jews specifically and how they had made prayer a showy display of themselves.

3/ John 6 Is about Jesus talking about his ACTUAL death and sacrifice and not the lords evening meal. You are misapplying this scripture woefully and considering your knowledge I am surprised at this one being on your list.

4/ I refer to the above.

5/ I refer to the above 3/

6/ people have to decide for themselves on the 144,000, bride, firstfruits. You explanation means you have to ignore all references to the 3 I just mentioned in the bible.

7/ Witnesses believe in the two covenants from the bible abrahamic (earthly) and the New covenant (heavenly) both can attain hope of life.

Col 1:19,20 For all the fullness was pleased to dwell in him; and through him to reconcile all things to himself, by him, whether things on the earth, or things in the heavens,

Eph 1:9-12 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he purposed in him to an administration of the fullness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, in him; in whom also we were assigned an inheritance, glory,....

8/ Michael is a whole subject in itself but I agree with them. I could post a whole list of the scriptures but I think most on here know the Michael debate.

9/ Many scholars throughout the last 1700 years have wondered over whether Judas was present during the meal trying to harmonise the 4 accounts. Why are you making this an issue with witnesses?

My motivations are my own on here but your questions when broken down aren't that complex.

75

I'm curious...

by JediMaster in

did anyone here claim to be of the anointed and partook of the emblems at memorial when you were still a witness???

if so, was there really a force telling you, you were special and would go to heaven?

or was it more so overjoy at how spritual you though you were?

debator

Hi Aguest

No keeping account of injury is a personal subject and usually involves both sides repenting but repentence is a main Bible theme.

Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Jehovah. Repent and live!

Matthew 3:2
and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."

Matthew 3:7-10 (New International Version)

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

Matthew 4:17
From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."

Luke 17:4
If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him."

Acts 11:18
When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life."

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Revelation 3:19
Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.

Rebuke and discipline is showing love as well which any parent knows, it keeps our children safe teaching them accountability and repentence of wrongdoing.

We are ont talking about silly little offences and personal injuries but major sins that we have to keep the congregation clean from for protection.