Since women get exactly the same inheritance as men both earthly and heavenly and their role as a helpmate to man in the bible in no way lessons this. Then this shows the fault is with those that see this as a lesser role. Being submissive to men doesn't make women less equal it is just a different role. Do we accept women are weaker physically? Do we accept men cannot physically give birth to children? You are just confusing different roles.
debator
JoinedPosts by debator
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13
Is all religion based on male power?
by ThomasCovenant insomething in the news, i think, about women clergy got me thinking that all religion, particularly in the past, has been based on man's superiority over women.
i, for one, wouldn't want to join any religion in which i was second class to penis less people.. i was after all made in god's image whereas women were not.. .
i can't help but think that religion has been a great force for perpetuating sexual discrimination.. .
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Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.
by Scott77 in"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.
they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.
a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?
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debator
Hi bohm
Good question! Yes I would be unhappy. It is too limiting and harmful, I find myself too aware of those in need in poverty of poorer nations that have to suffer so I in a richer nation can have more. The selfishness of people for themselves or just for their family is very off-putting. Then you see the mad dash for inheritances from dead relatives as greed overwhelms their offspring.
Would you be prepared to ask this of a child dying of aids in africa? or a native american still living on reserves after their own land was ripped away from them? Or a person living on handouts because they are to ill/old/disabled/lacking education to get out of their poverty trap?
I saw a program last night about cosmetic surgeons that went to vietnam to help for 7 days the multiple people left with facial disfigurments after many years of harmful chemicals released around them from the war (they have one of the highest rates for disfigurments for any country). There was a massive line of people (mostly kids with face tumours) but they could only help a few. It was unutterably sad and moving.
What this world does provide, is many avenues of escapism entertainment that stop us seeing our lack.
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Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.
by Scott77 in"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.
they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.
a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?
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debator
Hi scott
If you are happy with what this world and existence offers within it's three score years and ten then jeff certainly has a point.
1 John 2:16-17 (New International Version)
16 For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
Faith reaching out beyond what we see and can do is a mark of our faith in Jehovah.
Hebrews 11:1 (New International Version)
1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
It is two different choices that are laid before us. And it is understandable that if you choose the realness of the now in this world that you would consider this the preferred choice.
Isaiah 22:13
But see, there is joy and revelry, slaughtering of cattle and killing of sheep, eating of meat and drinking of wine! "Let us eat and drink," you say, "for tomorrow we die!" -
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Help with refining these questions for JW's
by S EIGHT ini am slowly building a list of questions designed to help jw's "think" about the "truth".
please let me know if you think they can be refined or added to.. cheers,.
1. specifically, what was jesus looking for in 1918 when he looked upon the earth to identify his faithful and discrete slave?.
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Hi fester
In a word .... heaven! We have his attention now but his Full return happens at Armageddon and even then it is done from heaven as he will never come to earth as a man again since he is now a spirit being in heaven. He sacrificed his earthly life as a man for the whole of mankind so we could have life through his sacrifice.
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Help with refining these questions for JW's
by S EIGHT ini am slowly building a list of questions designed to help jw's "think" about the "truth".
please let me know if you think they can be refined or added to.. cheers,.
1. specifically, what was jesus looking for in 1918 when he looked upon the earth to identify his faithful and discrete slave?.
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debator
Hi Isaac
Since people on here are taught what they should question and disbelieve regarding witnesses. I think it is an entirely valid question. If a consequence of leaving witnesses means you have to go on various sites to get the info to disagree with witnesses. This would indicate a lack of original thinking and freedom you are all trying to say you have.
I find people that disagree with witnesses rarely mention anything but learned rhetoric of various internet sites like this one. NGO, 607, generation, mind control (always ironic with regard to their learned rhetoric) being only a few of the main ones. That they do not seem to be able to talk outside of these.
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YMCA now I am mad!!!
by loosie ini talked to a current jw today and he told me that it came out in print from the wtbts that you can be a memebr of the ymca as long as you don't associate with the other worldlys that go there..
omg!!!
just a few years ago i was told that i couldn't be at the ymca because it was a christian org.. .
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debator
Young Men's Christian Association.
http://www.ymca.org.uk/bfora/systems/xmlviewer/default.asp?arg=DS_YMCA_WEBART_130/_page.xsl/182
"Many of our values are rooted in the Chrisitan faith. Indeed, YMCA is an abbreviation of Young Men's Christian Association.
The following looks at what the 'C' in the YMCA - the Christian - means to us, and how we think it helps to make our work unique. "
The YMCA is not a church, nor is it affiliated to any particular denominational expression of Christianity.
However, many YMCAs across England have developed close working relationships with local church groups, as well as with other voluntary organisations that share our ethos and aims.
YMCAs will also provide a place to meet and pray for those who follow other world faiths.
</form></form></form></form></form> </form></form></form></form></form></form>
</form>site map site YMCA directory Make a donation Take part in an event Job vacancies YMCA Directory YMCA Online Shop The YMCA is not a church, nor is it affiliated to any particular denominational expression of Christianity.
However, many YMCAs across England have developed close working relationships with local church groups, as well as with other voluntary organisations that share our ethos and aims.
YMCAs will also provide a place to meet and pray for those who follow other world faiths.
</form></form></form></form></form> </form></form></form></form></form></form>
</form>site map site YMCA directory Make a donation Take part in an event Job vacancies YMCA Directory YMCA Online Shop The YMCA is not a church, nor is it affiliated to any particular denominational expression of Christianity.
However, many YMCAs across England have developed close working relationships with local church groups, as well as with other voluntary organisations that share our ethos and aims.
YMCAs will also provide a place to meet and pray for those who follow other world faiths.
</form></form></form></form></form> </form></form></form></form></form></form>
</form>site map site YMCA directory Make a donation Take part in an event Job vacancies YMCA Directory YMCA Online Shop -
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New evidence 75,000 years ago a Supervolcano caused mass human and animal extinction...but no evidence for a global flood. Why?
by Witness 007 inlake toba indonisia is a huge volcano which four independant groups {volcano, genetic, ocean, climate, scientists} have confimed caused a "bottlekneck in human evolution.
" the ash cloud reached thousands of miles away, and caused a massive ice age, killing 60% of the 60 million people on earth.
it took thousands of years for plant and animal life to return to normal.
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debator
Note the word theory! it is only a theory they weren't there! Racial memory from many diverse groups supports a global flood happening. but since we can't literally flood the world completely atm to see what would be the markers of such a flood then they cannot know what to look for. darwinist experts which the majority are have a vested interest in disproving the bible and going for any other conclusion for the bottleneck.
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Bible says God confused peoples languages at Babel....is this childish nonsense?
by Witness 007 inyeah so in genesis we read how people began building a tower which would reach up to jehovah in heaven....must have been damn tall....rather then just stop them, god changes everyones language.....one guys speakin french.....another speakin russian and so on!
can't finish the tower now can they!!
this is not very scientific......does anyone believe this is how languages got started???
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debator
Hi leolaia
I see we both agree that there are many unique languages and that some "change" happened. It is allowable that some isolated languages didn't go further than one group that then died out having no reason for the language itself to evolve much beyond the first expression of it with no interaction with other languages or development beyond the original form. The bible only says God made a multiplicity of languages not saying more than this on how they then evolved within themselves. I prefer the bible explanation since it is an explanation. You show we have these many languages but you give no explanation for them.
You say they "are more ancient" than the bible account but that is just estimated opinion on information that is scrappy at best and very subjective changing from scholar to scholar. You agree it is in "recent history" The bible account was writen by inspiration many 100's years after these events happened. So the dating of the bible being written is not applicable.
Your methodology does not disagree with the bible account. The bible says God made us a diverse language people and this is what we are. Darwinism can offer no explanation for this, it has to fitted in as an assumption of unexplained fact.
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I feel so discourage
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debator
Hi Desi
I hope this is not the only reason you left as it isn't a valid one to judge them on. All Prophecies are subjective. We are given prophecy to try and undertsand, in this case Jesus says "generation" and we have to try to decern it. Moses was "inspired" and so had that added accuracy. The Anointed in this time do not have the gift of "inspiration" when we look at Bible prophecies we are to decern their meanings so as to be "ready" and "on watch" God does not expect a level of accuracy from us that you and others on here seem too.
Did noah know when the rainwaters would come he only knew they would be soon in fact the Bible mentiones 120 years but not that God said this to noah.
Genesis 6:3
3 Then Jehovah said, "My Spirit will not contend with [a] man forever, for he is mortal [b] ; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."
it was after he said this that he saw 500 year old noah.
Genesis 5:32 (New International Version)
32 After Noah was 500 years old, he became the father of Shem, Ham and Japheth.
Genesis 6:8
8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of Jehovah
and yet Noah himself was 600 when the flood actually happenned clearly waiting many, many years but building the ark getting ready for when it did finally happen.
Genesis 7:6
6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters came on the earth.
again the christians didn't know when jerusalem would be destroyed.
Prophecies were deliberately designed to be obscure and need reference to the WHOLE Bible to be understood with any kind of accuracy. Hense why it is predicted we will need "refinement" until the end.
Daniel 11:35
Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.Jesus himself had to explain which prophecies he fulfilled.
Luke 24:27
And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.showing it had not already been seen. Prophecy is only 100% in hindsight.
Here is the choice laid before the anointed or indeed any group that claim to be christians....
Should we try to decern prophecy knowing we will not be know the full truth untill after it is fulfilled?
should we ignore it for these same reasons?
should we bury it unused as the majority of christendom has?
should we let all our flock have differing opinions (allow divisions) and not guide them to agreement?
1 Corinthians 1:10
[ Divisions in the Church ] I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.The answer to all these is why I have no problem with going with any current understanding of Bible prophecy. Prophecy is a unique part of the bible and easy to point accusing fingers at. But note all these nay-sayers to the current "generation" understanding offer no alternative explanation for this prophecy.
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Bible says God confused peoples languages at Babel....is this childish nonsense?
by Witness 007 inyeah so in genesis we read how people began building a tower which would reach up to jehovah in heaven....must have been damn tall....rather then just stop them, god changes everyones language.....one guys speakin french.....another speakin russian and so on!
can't finish the tower now can they!!
this is not very scientific......does anyone believe this is how languages got started???
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debator
The Bible account is substantiated by evidence from languages themselves.
"However, the existing state of human language nevertheless suggests that the variety of dialects and sub-languages has developed from a relatively few (perhaps even less than twenty) languages. These original ‘proto-languages’—from which all others allegedly have developed—were distinct within themselves, with no previous ancestral language. "
http://www.trueorigin.org/language01.asp
There are more on this showing that several unique languages originally formed a basis from which the multiplicity of languages we have today have branched out from. This is the reality of the bible account being true. Darwinism only allows for one proto-language which has been disproved by the evidence of several original proto-languages unique in themselves.
To be honest the reality of so many languages proves the bible so the burden of proof lies on those that say it is a myth when the evidence points to it being true.
Hi Leolaia
Your point only shows that there are other accounts of the same thing from other sources though not inspired. A similar situation found in the many flood accounts that are from many disparate nations. Obviously your point is to put more accuracy on these rather than the bible account but that is only your opinion. When given a choice of two or more, for me the bible account gives more factual answers that are checkably accurate, as apposed to mythology from the uninspired nations that only have racial memory of these events to draw from so similarity but not accuracy.