Posts by debator

278

Children of 1975

by d in

what was it like to live in the 1950's 1960's and early 70's as a jehovah witness.when they started to push the 1975 date..

debator

Thank you guys for posting the watchtowers that confirm they are talking about the 6000 years from Adam as I said they did.

47

Email I sent to mom after huge fight today

by meangirl in

well my mom and i got into a pretty bad argument today over the phone.

it basically came down to the fact that she couldn't handle what i was saying about the organization, etc and all she could come back to me was that i "hated her?

" i guess i just wanted to share and vent a little too....thanks for letting me do so.. .

Parents of df'd kids still can have family business with there kids which includes looking after them if they are at home. They maybe our "children" but they are not children, they are adults making definite adult choices and living their own lifes.

Lets not minimise that choice (whoever is right) what we believe as to our origin and future is a life and death one.

278

Children of 1975

by d in

what was it like to live in the 1950's 1960's and early 70's as a jehovah witness.when they started to push the 1975 date..

debator

Hi cantleave

You also forget the whole nuclear fear that held all of the world in it's grip then. People were digging bunkers as well. Throughout the whole of the 60's 70's was a feeling of impending nuclear doom on the whole world.

278

Children of 1975

by d in

what was it like to live in the 1950's 1960's and early 70's as a jehovah witness.when they started to push the 1975 date..

debator

Hearsay is not proof. That arrow would most likely have been mention of the 6000 years from Adam.

We are not afraid of commiting our Bible drawn beliefs to paper it's the last thing we could be accused of and I'm sorry but 1 arrow in 1 publication which is even less than I thought you could dig up is not going to prove a massive conspiracy theory over 75'

Did a whole lot of Witnesses from the flock to elders run ahead of our teachings? yes. Was it official doctrine? No.

Our official beliefs are in black and white for all too read from 1900's onwards, this is not one of them.

185

Why did God kill children?

by brotherdan in

the atheists and bible deniers love to talk about how hateful and murderous god is.

i suggest the following.

i believe that the children that were killed in warfare by the israelites were taken to heaven with god.

debator

Hi bohm

I think you are reading a lot into what I didn't say. I did not mention other gods at all.

Stalin was an Atheist that did not stop him being sadistically cruel leader that killed thousands.

Men often use religion and God (any god) as an excuse to do attrocities but the choice to do them is on their own heads.

In the past ignorance could be claimed but not any more. We know exactly what we are doing when we send a bomb into a city full of people.

The old testament arguments are always weird since they take no account of the fact that the whole of humankind was extremely violent take the example of Jacob's sons that killed a whole tribe because of the rape of their sister. It was a "kill or be killed" time. The philistines would have thanked you for mercy they'd have just killed you instead.

They needed the basic laws given to Moses simply to bring them to some understanding of basic morality and humanity that was so lost to them. Jesus also came and gave us a deeper understanding so we became Christians progressing beyond the jews bloodthirsty asking for the messiah to kill all the Romans for them. The Bible is a warts and all look at humanity it takes some hard reading but ultimately makes us face upto our own decisions as humans and our own imperfection.

278

Children of 1975

by d in

what was it like to live in the 1950's 1960's and early 70's as a jehovah witness.when they started to push the 1975 date..

debator

Hi black sheep

I answered you.

So you weren't old enough for this one but you still want to whip the witnesses with it? That just shows your prejudice black sheep.

278

Children of 1975

by d in

what was it like to live in the 1950's 1960's and early 70's as a jehovah witness.when they started to push the 1975 date..

debator

Sorry I don't answer personal questions cantleave.

The facts are that the watchtowers do not support the claim of official doctrine that is made on here about '75 it is only slightly refered too at best. All that can be said of the arguments on this site is people are saying "Everyone wanted 75 to be Armageddon and so we blame the shepherds"

This whole thread is marked by it's lack of watchtower quoting and it's mass of hearsay.

278

Children of 1975

by d in

what was it like to live in the 1950's 1960's and early 70's as a jehovah witness.when they started to push the 1975 date..

debator

This were we have to accept culpability as a whole people. WE Jehovah's witnesses wanted Armageddon on that date then so we went beyond ourselves. This is not "Them and us" Passing the buck to shepherds, it is simply just not taking on responsibility for our own decisions. Hearsay and reading it into wt's that do not mention the date at all, is just silly.

You cannot construct an official doctrine out of hearsay and expectation. (Well you are obviously trying to do exactly this but your Bias is obvious by the way you are going into it, looking for it. Reading into warnings about Armageddon which we do all the time as particularily relating to 1975.

I could use any watchtowers talking about the imminence of Armageddon to construct an argument for every year since they started writing them.

The facts are that we as witnesses think Armageddon could happen now at any time and we need to be ready and on watch for it at all times as we are in the "lasts days" right now.

278

Children of 1975

by d in

what was it like to live in the 1950's 1960's and early 70's as a jehovah witness.when they started to push the 1975 date..

debator

Hi little imp

You are confusing the generation teaching with 1975

Like I said if 1975 was an official Armageddon teaching it would be quite definitely in the magazines but it isn't. Trust me, If 1975 was the ex-Jws would be SCREAMING it out on this site. Like I said 1975 is only referenced slighty and definitely not officially as an Armageddon date.

Your husband will have a lot of work and only find the usual references to urgency of being in "end times" when God can bring Armageddon at any time now that Satan is roaming about the earth.

"millions now living" that you talk about is the "generation" expectation that Armageddon would happen within the lifetimes of those that were alive at 1914 so towards the end of the last century this was added to expectancy and yes we had no problem putting this in our watchtowers officially but it needed refining, time showing up the error of this early teaching from our emergence days.

The problem with 1975 accusation is:- that for a very prolific writing religion it is simply not down in black and white to meet the accusations of the people on here.

Did people get over-enthusiatic for that date? yes. Was it an official teaching? No.

278

Children of 1975

by d in

what was it like to live in the 1950's 1960's and early 70's as a jehovah witness.when they started to push the 1975 date..

debator

Hi Juan

You say watchtowers and awakes talk about it but none of them have 1975 in as a date for Armageddon in them. They do warn of impending Armageddon which they have from 1900's till now so You are wrong there.

I accept many people (including elders, congregation members and bethel workers etc) got caught up by the 1975 year because it marked something like 6000 years since Adam but there was no official teaching that 1975 was the date for Armageddon.

When a date like 1914 is found using Biblical Chronology we have no problem putting it continuously in our magazines as a definite date. You can probs find mention of 1914 in magazines from nearly every year we've published watchtowers so if 1975 was an official teaching we would have no problem putting it in our magazines but we didn't it is referenced only slightly.

I am a Witness and we know official teachings are written down very definitely and extremely frequently. We are not afraid of writing things down that is not something anyone could accuse us of. What we believe is there for anyone to read. Hense why you get people on here quoting watchtower after watchtower but never on this subject because none exists.

There was an added urgency in those decades because of the "generation" teaching that needed refining since time itself had highlighted the error.

1975 was hopeful thinking by a lot of witnesses and it is sad that many left because of this mistake by men in their enthusiasm but it doesn't negate Jehovah at all he will still bring Armageddon when he deems it the right time.