Posts by debator

202

"Birthdays rob the glory of God"

by sabastious in

humans are unique.

each one is unique in his/her own regard.

like your thumbprint, your life is unlike any life in existence.. .

debator

Hi designs

I could take any Sacred day from any religion and try make it over to Jehovah or his son but it doesn't lessen what it is or how others use it.

Making the Golden calf over to Jehovah did not make it pure or acceptable.

These are the sacred celebrations of the pagan world that are considered sacred/special by the world. You say "special" yourself. Ask yourself why you consider them so "special" when they are simply a family gathering on an annual date. So "special" you had to do them secretly.

If the actual date of our birth is so important why isn't one single date of birth put in the Bible?

72

1975 And The Life Everlasting Book.

by Bangalore in

found these on perimeno's site.. .

.

bangalore.

debator

look at the book

what does it put on the year 1975?

Certainly not Armageddon.

The 6000 years is marked so only showing Armageddon was hoped for but not taught as definite or doctrine.

135

No one is going to Heaven (and my introduction to the forum)

by sobrino1 in

i'm new to the forum, though i had been a lurker for quite some time now.

i studied w/ the witnesses for a number of years, to be specific, for 10 years (since i was a child) but never actually became one; though, i was counted as one in the yearbooks as a "publisher.

" so, as far as i got was as an unbaptized publisher.

debator

hi Curtains

I'll quote Revelation 7

4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

So Your saying a specific number counted out (144,000) are the same as a group that cannot be counted that happen after them. I think it is you that needs to reread Revelation 7 and think about what happens when you create oxymorons. Counted - uncountable

202

"Birthdays rob the glory of God"

by sabastious in

humans are unique.

each one is unique in his/her own regard.

like your thumbprint, your life is unlike any life in existence.. .

debator

Hi gladiator

They are Pagan celebrations whatever happens on them for the good or ill is simply not regulated by morality from the Bible and this shows.

202

"Birthdays rob the glory of God"

by sabastious in

humans are unique.

each one is unique in his/her own regard.

like your thumbprint, your life is unlike any life in existence.. .

debator

Hi designs

People can have fun parties for many different reasons. The point of birthdays and X-mas is they are Pagan and nothing to do with honouring God.

Children can have parties with family without the sacred feast-day tag. It doesn't (shock horror) have to be fixed on the annualised day of their birth to be relevent as a family gathering. Why is "BIRTHDAY" always emphasised?

For me gift-giving is more real and poignant from someone thinking of you if it hasn't the forced obligation/expectation of these feastdays on it.

202

"Birthdays rob the glory of God"

by sabastious in

humans are unique.

each one is unique in his/her own regard.

like your thumbprint, your life is unlike any life in existence.. .

debator

Baptism has pagan ties with other groups, birthdays are of pagan origin. One Jesus did (he got baptised) the other he had nothing to do with and under inspiration not one apostles gave Jesus's birthdate why?

Where the early Christians wrong not to celebrate birthdays?

BTW why are you mixing items with actual celebrations? these are two different things and not comparative at all.

The difference is between what we have to put up with under the authority of this world and what our heart motivates us to celebrate under Jehovah's rule.

I have never hankered after the greed and over-indulgence of these feastdays. The innocence of youth is soon lost in the excesses of later years with these celebrations.

135

No one is going to Heaven (and my introduction to the forum)

by sobrino1 in

i'm new to the forum, though i had been a lurker for quite some time now.

i studied w/ the witnesses for a number of years, to be specific, for 10 years (since i was a child) but never actually became one; though, i was counted as one in the yearbooks as a "publisher.

" so, as far as i got was as an unbaptized publisher.

debator

Hi curtains

Nice sounding but unbiblical. The Bible makes a point of naming 144,000 as a specific group of kings and priests to rule over mankind as co-heirs with Jesus.

Even if you try to place them on earth they stil remain separate from the great crowd.

And does that mean Jesus is also on earth as a man with them as co-heir?

(rubs head in amazement) Born-againers really like to take a lone scripture out of biblical context and run with it, letting it take them in any bazaar direction while ignoring the framework of other scriptures restricting it.

202

"Birthdays rob the glory of God"

by sabastious in

humans are unique.

each one is unique in his/her own regard.

like your thumbprint, your life is unlike any life in existence.. .

debator

Hi Gladiator

As witnesses we allow Bible principles and commands to mold us as also indeed did the early Christians who themselves refused to start celebrating the pagan Birthdays so prevalent around them.

It is historically shown that it wasn't until the heavy influence of pagan rome started pulling Christianity it's way that they crumbled and to started celebrating these pagan feastdays.

Where early Christians Evil for not celebrating Birthdays?

These witnesses you use as an example held a "private" party, if they felt it wasn't wrong why the secrecy?

We are told to keep apart from the world and away from idolatry in all it's forms including the sacred days pagans hold so dear.

You are a rich and affluent man inviting a most valued guest to your home would you go out and get the mouldy leftovers from another man's house and serve them to him?

You cannot whitewash pagan traditions and make them over to Jehovah or his son. The same as the Jews couldn't make-over an egyptian inspired Golden Calf to Jehovah either. Pagan remains pagan as the trestament of time and the people show.

Like I said earlier a good portion of people on these forums reject religion and any pretense at belief in God yet they fully embrace birthdays and Xmas, Why? because they know themselves these feastdays have absolutely nothing to do with God or his son Jesus.

48

Jesus Trashes 1914 in ONE Sentence!

by Farkel in

it only takes one short sentence from the bible to thoroughly demolish the watchtower religion and the doctrine they claim is their most important one.

this sentence is so crystal clear that there is no way the wts can weasal out of it.

that's why they don't even try.. although their real most important doctrine is that the governing body speaks for god, their claimed most important doctrine begins with the notion that jesus took kingdom power and began reigning in 1914. if that doctrine can be shown to be false, the entire watchtower theology scam crumbles into the trash heap where it belongs.

debator

Hi farkel

You cannot make valid debate points out by just throwing out the Bible books that don't harmonize with your opinion. That is just weak.

Witnesses do not deny Jesus's authority we just put him under his Dad Almighty God Jehovah who gaves and gives him this authority and who Jesus will also give it back too. We also let the bible tells us it's own timetable of when things happen. We just don't read a whole man-made doctrine into one word, we let the Bible explain itself what it means by using that word.

1 Corinthians 15:24
Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

Even with all this authority from his Father there are certain things Jehovah alone does and knows.

Matthew 20:23
Jesus said to them, "You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by myFather."

Matthew 24:36
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

202

"Birthdays rob the glory of God"

by sabastious in

humans are unique.

each one is unique in his/her own regard.

like your thumbprint, your life is unlike any life in existence.. .

debator

HI TJ

Birthdays were pagan, continued to be pagan and still ARE pagan celebrations right up until today.

These are not things, events or items but Annual rememberances, sacred days, huge celebrations. Man celebrating man and they do not even pretend anymore to have anything to do with God.

People say the "worship God" but if the two Main celebrations they have in a year are all about celebrating themselves and having a party, where is the glorification of God?

2 Timothy 3:5
having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.

How important are these celebrations to you? how sacred are they compared to God? Is it easier to give up God than a Birthday? Would you force people to do them for their kids?